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macOS Sonoma is available today

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Re: macOS Sonoma is available today

#341

Post by aeyes »

bombcar wrote: post #301
aeyes wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what would be even better? If you could reliably uninstall all this junk or not even install it at all. Every time I hit some button on my keyboard and the Music app opens asking me to create an account I am reminded how hostile all commercial operating systems are.

Somehow on migrating to a new iPhone the music app decided it needed full notification permissions, apparently because a new Taylor swift album is of the same notification level as an incoming missile strike. At least it’s easy enough to turn off.

At least they didn't "gift" you the album like they did with U2

Re: macOS Sonoma is available today

#342

Post by zapzupnz »

thfuran wrote: post #90
capableweb wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? "It just works" isn't something you've ever heard from someone who uses Apple products? Or "I might not be able to change X, but at least I know what's there works well"?

But it doesn't work. It isn't present. There's basically no window management.

Uh, Mission Control, formerly Exposé? Spaces? Full screen windows? The tiling shortcuts that appear when you hover the green window button?

If you don't use them, that's fine, but they do exist and they are well-used.

Re: macOS Sonoma is available today

#343

Post by speak_plainly »

brandall10 wrote: post #251
pedalpete wrote: post #249

Does anyone else have no idea what macOS version is which? Which came first? Is there some hidden naming protocol that I just don't grasp? I've only started using a mac part-time while I've been developing an iOS app over the past few weeks, and I keep seeing different names for the OS version. I have no idea what version I'm on, or if Big Sur came before Sierra, or what. I know I could look it up, but it seems that…

It says the in the "About This Mac" Apple menu item. In this case, it will be Sonoma 14.0. Historically versioning is weird due to the integration of NextSTEP after Job's return to the company. First it was versioned up to 9, then the NextSTEP integration was 10, then subsequent major releases were minor bumps (ie 10.1, 10.2) as OSX was a brand unto itself until 11 which rebranded to MacOS and full versions were used…

Sonoma is the 21st release of a Mac operating system based on NeXTSTEP. The switch to 11 marked the transition to Apple Silicon. The code names have been used as an alternate name since 10.2 Jaguar as a way at the time to differentiate from and shame Microsoft’s Longhorn (Vista).

1. Mac OS X Public Beta (Kodiak) - 2000

2. Mac OS X 10.0 (Cheetah) - 2001

3. Mac OS X 10.1 (Puma) - 2001

4. Mac OS X 10.2 (Jaguar) - 2002

5. Mac OS X 10.3 (Panther) - 2003

6. Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger) - 2005

7. Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) - 2007

8. Mac OS X 10.6 (Snow Leopard) - 2009

9. Mac OS X 10.7 (Lion) - 2011

10. OS X 10.8 (Mountain Lion) - 2012

11. OS X 10.9 (Mavericks) - 2013

12. OS X 10.10 (Yosemite) - 2014

13. OS X 10.11 (El Capitan) - 2015

14. macOS 10.12 (Sierra) - 2016

15. macOS 10.13 (High Sierra) - 2017

16. macOS 10.14 (Mojave) - 2018

17. macOS 10.15 (Catalina) - 2019

18. macOS 11 (Big Sur) - 2020

19. macOS 12 (Monterey) - 2021

20. macOS 13 (Ventura) - 2022

21. macOS 14 (Sonoma) - 2023

Re: macOS Sonoma is available today

#344

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

mdaniel wrote: post #223
n8henrie wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://nixos.org/download.html#nix-install-macos The homebrew team seems incredibly burnt-out, to the point of hostility. I've really enjoyed the nixpkgs community so far and encourage others to check it out; it hasn't replaced homebrew entirely for me (yet), but it's getting closer every day.

I want to like Nix but those installation instructions for macOS (and their removal friend) are just crazypants as compared to the `sudo mkdir /nix && sudo chown $USER /nix` from the Linux version And that's not even getting into the "waaa?" from `du -hs /nix` although I am open to that being a misleading number due to hardlinks and other trickery that du may not correctly surface

> And that's not even getting into the "waaa?" from `du -hs /nix` although I am open to that being a misleading number due to hardlinks and other trickery that du may not correctly surface

Are you running garbage collection? It gets out of hand if you keep all versions, but you don't need to do that

Re: macOS Sonoma is available today

#345

Post by bombcar »

rconti wrote: post #266
pedalpete wrote: post #249

Does anyone else have no idea what macOS version is which? Which came first? Is there some hidden naming protocol that I just don't grasp? I've only started using a mac part-time while I've been developing an iOS app over the past few weeks, and I keep seeing different names for the OS version. I have no idea what version I'm on, or if Big Sur came before Sierra, or what. I know I could look it up, but it seems that…

No, I also have no clue, but it's no more annoying than keeping track of which Ubuntu version is called something inane like Jaunty Jackalope.

But it's alphabetical, if you see Ignorant Ibex and Jaundiced Jackalope, you know that (after singing the alphabet song to yourself quietly) that II came before JJ.

Re: macOS Sonoma is available today

#347

Post by wiml »

astrange wrote: post #257
jcelerier wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm secretly hoping for a makepkg / pacman-based replacement to homebrew, to have the same set of commands and package naming conventions across mac / win / linux

Wasn't there one? I know there is Nix for macOS, though it's probably not very maintained.

The Darwin nixpkgs is actually pretty active and healthy, in my experience.

Re: macOS Sonoma is available today

#348

Post by mrpippy »

musicale wrote: post #324
oxonia wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the Homebrew message does seem unnecessarily hostile. Not everyone can afford to buy a brand new computer every year.

I wish there were a macOS (and Homebrew) "extended support" edition with security patches for 10 years rather than 7. Old Macs are often perfectly usable in terms of hardware, but macOS security updates have left them behind. As of today, it's likely that the 2016 Mac I'm writing this on (which can run Monterey but not Ventura or Sonoma) is out of support. Of course the Mac apocalypse will be when x86 support is drop…

If the expected pattern holds, macOS Monterey will be getting security updates for another year.

Re: macOS Sonoma is available today

#349

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

pedalpete wrote: post #263
brandall10 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It says the in the "About This Mac" Apple menu item. In this case, it will be Sonoma 14.0. Historically versioning is weird due to the integration of NextSTEP after Job's return to the company. First it was versioned up to 9, then the NextSTEP integration was 10, then subsequent major releases were minor bumps (ie 10.1, 10.2) as OSX was a brand unto itself until 11 which rebranded to MacOS and full versions were used…

I went to the wikipedia page, which is kinda the point. No other OS requires you too look it up. Even WatchOS and iOS directly use version numbers. Saying it's due to NextStep integration sounds like a strange defense of this naming strategy (if that was your intention). They have version numbers, but they decide to use the "code name" as a product name.

> No other OS requires you too look it up.

Debian and Ubuntu frequently refer to releases by codename rather than number

Re: macOS Sonoma is available today

#350

Post by koito17 »

mk12 wrote: post #279
astrange wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once again a good time to remember that there were multiple perfectly good package managers available when Homebrew was invented, they were more future-proof (by eg not putting files in /usr/local), and everyone only switched to it because for some reason Ruby programmers wanted all of their tools to be written in Ruby (and possibly by people with waxed mustaches.)

I don't care what language Homebrew uses, it just works. When I got my M1 MacBook in 2021 I saw some of this negativity about Homebrew, and since I was doing a clean install anyway I decided to try out MacPorts. I quickly ran into problems and switched back to Homebrew and it's been smooth sailing.

What problems did you run into? I've been using MacPorts for years at this point since Homebrew can never seem to install libraries in a way that pkg-config, gcc, and ld can find them. (Yes, I'm aware there is a subcommand in brew to manually print the paths to libraries, this is still not ergonomic compared to MacPorts where I install a library and it more or less "just works" when I want to use it).

Also, Homebrew attempting to nuke /usr/local on uninstall left a quite bad taste in my mouth. I had installed MacTeX before Homebrew, and thankfully MacTeX had proper file permissions set up, so my TeX installation was left in-tact. Still scary knowing that this is just done in the background without warning (unless the operation fails with errors).

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