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Why scalpers can get tickets

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Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#341

Post by sharts »

iambateman wrote: post #215

I think there’s a massive point which gets missed on this question… A lot of these tickets get resold on the platforms themselves. If a reseller buys the ticket, and then sells it again to the end user, Ticketmaster gets paid twice. This point results in at least hundreds of millions in revenue. Now, if one of the platforms “cracks down” and makes it harder to buy and sell people will prefer another platform. So plat…

That's a similar argument to maximizing GDP. If all we care about is that number rather than the quality of transactions happening, then we can't really make useful or accurate conclusions or predictions about the health of an economy.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#342

Post by jonhohle »

habosa wrote: post #320

Some of my favorite bands have done simple things which drastically (but not completely) reduce the levels of scalping. On a previous tour, Wilco made tickets only valid for the original holder with matching photo ID at the door. So I couldn’t sell my ticket. I was able to bring any guest I wanted with my second ticket though. For a while now Phish has done tickets via lottery and all tickets come in the physical mai…

Not that it was the best idea, but NIN made you wait in line at the venue during the last tour to buy tickets. I got there early and was still in line for at least 3 hours. When I finally made it to the counter I didn’t have any issue getting the tickets I wanted (floor, general admission).

On the one hand, I didn’t have to deal with TicketMaster. On the other hand, it took a significant amount of time out of a Saturday morning. I’m sure there’s some happy medium, like if you’re part of a mailing list or bought some merch before tickets were announced you can get a pre-release code to buy online.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#343

Post by d0gsg0w00f »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #253
chongli wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to see what it looks like to be a musician whose fanbase is all rich people, look no further than your local symphony orchestra.

Which, honestly, is a much more pleasant experience than going to the concerts under discussion. I don't enjoy the music as much, but I also don't have to jump through hoops, compete with scalpers, or put up with the rank smell of weed hanging over the concert venue.

Weed smell is awful. That's the worst part about decriminalization. I can't wait for society to treat burned weed with the same shame and looks of distaste as they do with burned tobacco.

I smell it everywhere now. It makes me furious when I'm in a public park with my kids and clouds of nasty smoke are wafting around.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#344

Post by lifeisstillgood »

lolinder wrote: post #327
gnicholas wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But don’t artists get less because scalping happens? That is, if they priced tickets higher to start, there would be more revenue going to the artists and less going to middlemen.

The scalpers are often affiliated with the artists, directly or indirectly. Katy Perry's contract was leaked in 2011 and she had reserved the right to sell tickets through "Resellers" [0]. And as the grandparent notes, many of the scalpers sell their tickets on Ticketmaster, which in turn has a contract with the artists. The artists would get more in the short term, but all this outrage that's currently directed at s…

That Katy Perry contract solves a large piece of this puzzle for me - if we are selling to scalpers direct then there has to be a deniable way for the scalers to have got the tickets another way - for example confusing ticket purchase processes

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#345

Post by Marazan »

wdr1 wrote: post #312
iambateman wrote: post #215

I think there’s a massive point which gets missed on this question… A lot of these tickets get resold on the platforms themselves. If a reseller buys the ticket, and then sells it again to the end user, Ticketmaster gets paid twice. This point results in at least hundreds of millions in revenue. Now, if one of the platforms “cracks down” and makes it harder to buy and sell people will prefer another platform. So plat…

> If a reseller buys the ticket, and then sells it again to the end user, Ticketmaster gets paid twice. Yeah, but Ticketmaster doesn't own the tickets. Nor do they decide the fees. Or even keep most of the revenue from the fees. All of that is decided by the promoter, possibly with the artist (if a big enough name) and to some extent the venue.

Ticketmaster (Live Nation) own the venue.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#346

Post by wodenokoto »

jonhohle wrote: post #342
habosa wrote: post #320

Some of my favorite bands have done simple things which drastically (but not completely) reduce the levels of scalping. On a previous tour, Wilco made tickets only valid for the original holder with matching photo ID at the door. So I couldn’t sell my ticket. I was able to bring any guest I wanted with my second ticket though. For a while now Phish has done tickets via lottery and all tickets come in the physical mai…

Not that it was the best idea, but NIN made you wait in line at the venue during the last tour to buy tickets. I got there early and was still in line for at least 3 hours. When I finally made it to the counter I didn’t have any issue getting the tickets I wanted (floor, general admission). On the one hand, I didn’t have to deal with TicketMaster. On the other hand, it took a significant amount of time out of a Satur…

Last time i went to a big show i arrived more than 3 hours in advance - with tickets in hand. Doesn't sound like you lost any time.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#347

Post by wodenokoto »

For K- and J-pop concerts it is not unusual that tickets sell out or nearly sell out during fanclub presale.

Only memberships over a certain age before the concert get access to presale, and name on ticket has to match at the door.

It sucks if you are a fan of the music and don't want to be part of the whole idol worshipping part of the business, but my impression is that there is very little scalping going on.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#348

Post by dazc »

patrickscoleman wrote: post #247
rs999gti wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simple fix then, ban reselling. The artist and TM still get the revenue, but the scalper gets inventory they can't move. What about the fans? Similar to airlines, let people buy standby tickets, at the event, check attendance, if there is space let the stand bys in. TM still gets paid twice, scalper has garbage, and fans get in. What about fans who can't go? Buy the insurance at checkout, if you can't go the insuranc…

Also actual fans sometimes can’t make a show and need to resell their tickets

But people buy stuff everyday that they never actually use. Why should tickets be sacred?

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#349

Post by lifeisstillgood »

So I think Inmight have the ticket market worked out - it's been puzzling me.

So we can easily solve ticket allocation on a "fair" way - London 2012 olympics was a good example. Everyone who wants tickets for an event signs up and there is a (verified) random selection and the lucky winners paid (I think) a tenner.

This is because there was no profit maximising incentive for the Games - it was a PR exercise for UK government.

Now for a Taylor Swift concert there is profit maximising. I am going to say here it's Taylor's manager who is the cackling moustache twirling villain of the piece to avoid upsetting Awiftians but hear me out.

Profit seeking manager arranged a contract like Katy Perry below [0]. This basically is a leak showing Perry arranged to be able to sell her own tickets to "resellers" - ie people she knew would sell on StubHub for higher than face value.

But to protect his clients reputation he wants to keep this selling of tickets at high prices a secret.

So imagine there are 1 million tickets for a tour, over 50 days at 20,000 tickets per event (no idea of this is right seems ok-ish). Then hold back 10 days (added by extra demand!) and then only sell say 50% of tickets at the low price, there are say 400,000 tickets available to fans. But release them slowly - extra demand / seating allocation, verifies fans first etc etc. The point is to guage demand - if 1000 people try to buy tickets on day 1 for a stadium, and only 500 manage to get through the process you know there are 500 disappointed people out there so sell the other 50% for that day on that stadium to reseller (your mate) who will go on stub hub or ticket master selling to people who just missed out and will pay higher prices.

finally a market that makes sense. Why is the process slow, awkward, convoluted? Because it's a signalling mechanism for reselling you higher priced tickets without affecting the reputation of the client

[0] https://www.vulture.com/2011/05/katy_perry_reserves_the_righ...

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#350

Post by matsemann »

kazinator wrote: post #285
mym1990 wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of banning resale, why not just allow resale at face value? The French open(tennis) does this and makes it possible to still get tickets at a reasonable price up until the day of the event.

Because you don't handle the money. If A shows up to the concert with tickets originally purchased by B, you have no idea how much A paid. Banning resale is not about selling per se but banning the changing of ownership. The person who paid is verified to be the one attending.

In Norway it's by law not legal to resell tickets at a higher price. That means that all listings on reputable buy/sell sites will immediately be taken down if you try.

It of course still happens, but in a smaller scale. You can't base a business around it, exactly.

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