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Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

medicalxpress.com

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Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#341

Post by smearth »

GordonS wrote: post #296
smearth wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry I misread kettle for kettle bell. But the load is irrelevant. If you are that weak then start with fragmented swimmers stretches 1 limb at a time. I was in the same situation in 2018 but you do forget once you escape. Just do 1 rep on each limb every second day until you can do two. Or figure out the training periodicity for your body so that you can build up to 30 swimmers stretches. Then add in another exerci…

I'm not "strong" by any means, but I wouldn't say I was weak either; the problem is that I'm not lacking the strength to lift the kettle (or my own arms, for that matter), rather that lactic acid doesn't allow me to use the strength I have for any length of time.

And after writing that I realised strength training is one of the recovery shortcuts for pacing. Smart people probably read this and think Doh, I'd be fatigued if I had that guy's problem solving ability.

There are plenty of other shortcuts.

I think this is the gist of what I'm whinging about regarding CFS treatment options.

More people would recover faster if Mindfullness wasn't the only tool available to shorten the process of pacing one's self to recovery. Being chill and treading carefully will work for less debilitated people. The really debilitated people are sensibly avoiding exertion, they aren't signing up for an underresourced olympic swim team .

Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#342

Post by smearth »

colordrops wrote: post #136
smearth wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might think that but it doesn’t heal anyone. Recovery rates for cfs are abysmal, I’m surprised you aren’t ashamed of your profession’s performance in this area. You seem comfortable placing responsibility for the illness on your patients “avoidance”. Yet it is initiated by a virus and everyone has different levels of mitochondrial density, resilience and health and different inflammatory cascades. “Avoidance” of…

So what was your cure?

I gradually figured out what activities, supplements and foods reduced my susceptibility to fatigue and pain and then repetitively used them until I got to a point that I was no longer susceptible to fatigue within the bounds of what I consider a healthy fulfilling life so that I can now convincingly pretend to myself that I don't have cfs. I'm no longer staring into the abyss. I can't run a marathon or do too much mental grunt work but I can just make a modest living, go for a 40 minute zone2 run or 3 hour hike, be a parent, sustain a relationship and keep some friendships going. In the midst of cfs I could only really be a part time parent with support, everything else stopped and I had no certainty that it would ever start again.

Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#343

Post by CyberDildonics »

talldatethrow wrote: post #201
irrational wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but trying to get his colleagues to believe it would be an uphill battle You have to go through a lot of education to become a doctor, so people naturally expect doctor's to be wise, but the truth is they are just good a memorizing things. They aren't necessarily smarter than any other person and have just as many blindspots. * Source: My dad and uncle are doctors. My brother in law is a doctor. I have a friend who…

I dated a med school student for all of medschool and some rotations. Thus I have countless doctor friends now from those years. Everytime I bring up the reality of what most doctors are like, I get downvoted on HN for some reason. The doctor I dated for years never drank water. She loved diet coke. She ate mcdonalds constantly but avoided the bun. She was skinny though. I had to teach her how to pump gas because her…

This sounds more like you are bitter about an ex than anything else.

Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#345

Post by agos »

avgcorrection wrote: post #147
b800h wrote: post #27

Largely unrelated, but the thing which leaves me feeling most wiped-out is playing (modern) computer games. I've cut them out completely, as they have no positive benefits and leave me listless and unmotivated.

Playing Starcraft 2 (RTS) was incredibly stressful for me. I don't recall if I got any joy from it. Warcraft 3 was similarly stressful. The RTS I play now is Age of Empires 2 DE. And only campaigns. And it's not any more stressful than other games for me.

same for me with Starcraft 2. I tried league gaming but it was waaaaaay too stressful to be enjoyable. Loved campaign mode.

Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#346

Post by hollerith »

lindsaywaterman wrote: post #334
hollerith wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So it's never wrong to try a pacing approach to see if it helps. How many people who've had chronic fatigue or post-exertion malaise for a few years do you think haven't tried pacing? I'm sure some have not tried it, but my guess is that it occurs to most as a pretty obvious thing to try even without a health-care provider's or information source's suggesting it. Even if a person's first response to chronic fatigue…

I would say most of the 100s of patients I have seen w cfs or fibro haven’t given pacing a good try - either they do t have the common sense you mention, or they do, but are unable to make the changes required to actually pace. Ie making boundaries with family, leaving an abusive partner, taking time off a cherished job etc. And then, it is very rare for a person to, once they have removed these more external sources…

OK. Also, I can see how a patient might neglect to consider the hypothesis that he must pace mental work as well as physical work.

Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#347

Post by lindsaywaterman »

hollerith wrote: post #346
lindsaywaterman wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say most of the 100s of patients I have seen w cfs or fibro haven’t given pacing a good try - either they do t have the common sense you mention, or they do, but are unable to make the changes required to actually pace. Ie making boundaries with family, leaving an abusive partner, taking time off a cherished job etc. And then, it is very rare for a person to, once they have removed these more external sources…

OK. Also, I can see how a patient might neglect to consider the hypothesis that he must pace mental work as well as physical work.

Exactly - mental, physical, and emotional work. IMO real pacing is extremely difficult, requiring a real transformation in life approach over the course of 3-5 years. And without certainty that making the sacrifices will pay off, most people take only half-measures, get poor results, and conclude it doesn’t work.

Re: Chronic fatigue syndrome may have a post-viral infection origin

#348

Post by avgcorrection »

agos wrote: post #345
avgcorrection wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Playing Starcraft 2 (RTS) was incredibly stressful for me. I don't recall if I got any joy from it. Warcraft 3 was similarly stressful. The RTS I play now is Age of Empires 2 DE. And only campaigns. And it's not any more stressful than other games for me.

same for me with Starcraft 2. I tried league gaming but it was waaaaaay too stressful to be enjoyable. Loved campaign mode.

The DOTA genre is interesting. They don't stress me out that much. I'm more bewildered by the ever-growing rooster of heroes/champions and what skills they have and what items they could have at the tenth minute or something. Then I easily just end up letting the other team farm experience over my dead body. :p
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