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For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

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Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#341

Post by rayiner »

whynotminot wrote: post #172
pfannkuchen wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that a single parent can meaningfully influence a public school curriculum? That is a ridiculous notion as far as I’m aware.

I’m saying you as a parent can talk to your kids and provide the missing perspective. I do not endorse the parents of todays worlds almost continuous crusade to change school curriculum in the face of things they disagree with. Provide context or alternative views to your kids where you feel is appropriate. Let them make their own choices.

You can’t raise children as if they’re little adults. They don’t have fully developed frontal cortexes until their late 20s: https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/the-teen-brain-... (“The brain finishes developing and maturing in the mid-to-late 20s. The part of the brain behind the forehead, called the prefrontal cortex, is one of the last parts to mature. This area is responsible for skills like planning, prioritizing, and making good decisions.”).

This is science. The very nature of the human animal is that children must be socialized, rather than merely presented information and allowed to make up their own minds: https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8Y8R8Lo/

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#342

Post by paraknight »

silverpepsi wrote: post #244
glitchc wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This means the kids gather together in one location because many kids can learn from the person doing the teaching. >Often as well it makes sense for the parents all to contribute a little money so that instead of the parents having to teach things that they are not expert in, the can pay as a group for someone with subject expertise to assist. >It can be problematic though gathering so many kids into one house for…

Something I heard a few years back put my life experience as a kid in perspective. At least for me, in the most important way possible, it doesn't sound like regular school at all. The main deep life impacting characteristic of standard public schools is coerced unwelcome company. You're forced by law to be around the same bullies for 5, 10, even 12 years. The natural order with organic friendships (and indeed probab…

I don't get it. Why can't bullying exist in the group homeschool at church? It's functionally equivalent to a school. Are you making a brand new point about traditional homeschooling (parent-child) or replying to the OP in the thread?

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#343

Post by scarmig »

dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #278
david-gpu wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Exposing kids to this reality doesn't seem bad to me. I hope your children don't get "exposed to this reality" in school, as you put it. The sorts of harrassment that school bullies inflict on their victims is, to put it simply, not tolerated anywhere else. Why should it be tolerated when it happens in school, where the victims have no choice but to attend every day?

Is it good that children get bullied or ostracized? Obviously not. It is far preferable however to the alternative of never having experienced that humans can act like this. We're sometimes assholes to each other for poor animalistic reasons, and that's probably not going away in my lifetime. One should be prepared for other people to act like this. > Why should it be tolerated when it happens in school, where the vi…

In real life, you can choose not to associate with the same person or clique 8 hours a day 5 days a week for thirteen years. Worst case scenario would be in a job situation, but here's the thing: you can find a new job. You can't find a new school.

In public school, you can either report the abuse to an authority figure who has little or no ability to actually remedy the situation, or you can... sit there and suffer? Fight back? While outside of it, you have more ways to remedy a bad situation than "just make your abuser respect you."

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#344

Post by klntsky »

soligern wrote: post #276
silverpepsi wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something I heard a few years back put my life experience as a kid in perspective. At least for me, in the most important way possible, it doesn't sound like regular school at all. The main deep life impacting characteristic of standard public schools is coerced unwelcome company. You're forced by law to be around the same bullies for 5, 10, even 12 years. The natural order with organic friendships (and indeed probab…

That doesn’t sound right. For all of human history bullies who were bigger and stronger made the rules. The weak were ostracized. If anything, what you’re doing in homeschooling is reverting away from the norm and creating a sheltered environment. This is a double edged sword, you can turn your kids into fragile beings incapable of dealing with a harsh world but at the same time they will probably have productive, pr…

> The best case scenario is to be rich enough so you can create a bubble for your kids that lasts from birth all the way to their graves

You don't have to be extra rich for that. Just don't associate, that's the whole point. To avoid a bully it's enough to not go to the same building with him every weekday.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#345

Post by synecdoche »

dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #306
silverpepsi wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really disagree with all the comments that make reference to reality - no that is not at all what "reality" is. The fact of the matter is that as an adult, I can draw a line in the sand and either leave a job or report someone who is making the workplace hostile. I can have arguments with friends, but I can also decide certain friendships are over because they've passed a reasonable max threshold for toxicity. As a…

> I can draw a line in the sand and either leave a job or report someone who is making the workplace hostile Because you have the money and possibility of acquiring another job relatively quickly (I suppose, otherwise you would not give up your survival means for such a reason). Not an option for everyone. > They incentivize victims sucking it up, because if you get punched in the face at school, both parties involve…

> Because you have the money and possibility of acquiring another job relatively quickly (I suppose, otherwise you would not give up your survival means for such a reason). Not an option for everyone.

Workplace conflicts usually don’t involve assault. Lines are usually drawn by standing your ground, explaining one’s position and taking the chances and picking the battles. If it comes to getting assaulted one better be prepared.

If the manager doesn’t agree one might get fired, or it is time to look for options.

Nothing in life is a must, but there are consequences to everything and one better choose wisely. But then, the ability to make good judgements comes from experience and experience is gained by experiencing the consequences of decisions or choices one has made in the past, including bad ones.

Resigning, from a position of employment, or situations in life in general should not be the first option, at least not without considering the above.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#346

Post by ddj231 »

whynotminot wrote: post #161
LudwigNagasena wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest problem with the setup you outlined is that the central government has no say in what is being taught to kids. So no matter how similar homeschooling will look to government-controlled schooling, people with power will never stop attacking it because of that crucial nuisance.

The “I don’t want the government perspective imposed on my children” is so funny to me as a homeschooling argument. Go to schoolboard meetings. Talk to your kids and their teachers. Understand what your kids are learning. If you feel a perspective is missing, fill in the gaps. Your kids will be better off for seeing different perspectives, understanding basic argumentation, and coming to their own conclusions. Oh thi…

This is far more nuance than I remember in public schools. At a young age there is quite a bit of rote memorization of facts. Sure parents can supplement their child’s education, but at the end of the day the child will be forced to adopt the schools viewpoint on certain perspective as the “correct” answer — or suffer in their grades

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#347

Post by thaumasiotes »

cogman10 wrote: post #146
aleph_minus_one wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My main issue with homeschooling is mostly around the fact that it's generally done so parents can control and limit children's access to well accepted facts (such as evolution, age of the earth, or dinosaurs). What is the problem with that? I am not aware of anything in the daily life that is dependent on the existence of macroevolution, the age of earth, or the history of dinosaurs. So, I really deeply from my he…

I just have a problem with parents closing doors for their kids. A lot of early education is about kids finding their interests and passions. It's also about making for a well rounded society. I don't care so much of a kid is like "I hate this dinosaur garbage" or whatever, but I feel awful for the kid that could have been a great paleontologist or biologist only to have that opportunity snuffed. Sort of the same rea…

> However, so much of the world is completely closed off to an illiterate person.

> It's not that I'm trying to be a missionary per say

Spoken - or rather, written - like someone who doesn't read much.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#348

Post by labster »

paraknight wrote: post #342
silverpepsi wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something I heard a few years back put my life experience as a kid in perspective. At least for me, in the most important way possible, it doesn't sound like regular school at all. The main deep life impacting characteristic of standard public schools is coerced unwelcome company. You're forced by law to be around the same bullies for 5, 10, even 12 years. The natural order with organic friendships (and indeed probab…

I don't get it. Why can't bullying exist in the group homeschool at church? It's functionally equivalent to a school. Are you making a brand new point about traditional homeschooling (parent-child) or replying to the OP in the thread?

As a child in a public school, you have no right to freedom of association, and no right to freedom from association. Your school chooses your classes, and the state will use violence to ensure you attend those classes, bully or not.

In home school, there is less people and more choice. There are no perverse incentives that value attendance over education and health.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#349

Post by rayiner »

kevingadd wrote: post #200
MrPatan wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if it's not about missing perspectives, but exposure to infohazards?

As someone who was homeschooled, I'm having a hard time coming up with an "infohazard" I avoided exposure to other than things like "the theory of evolution" or "the concept of sex" or "it turns out 'the slaves were treated quite well' isn't exactly true"

What about the obsession with sex, sexuality, and dating in American schools, which the adults do nothing to discourage? If I had to identify one reason why poor Asians have vastly higher income mobility than poor white people, that’d be it. We literally have twice the bandwidth to focus on studying.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#350

Post by thaumasiotes »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #39
jimmytucson wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much time does homeschooling take for you? Does it roughly equate to one full-time job? I have wanted to homeschool my kids but I am afraid I would have to quit my job or downshift to part-time. And since they are different ages, I worry that if I taught them all at the same time, the curriculum would average into something too challenging for the younger and not challenging enough for the elder. How do you manag…

Motivated children can easily outpace public-schooled children with 3 or 4 days a week at 3 hours a day. They can be very self-directed, but the trouble with it is they go down rabbit holes and they'll excel at one or two subjects to the detriment of others. My daughter would want to spend 6-10 hours a day on art, but wouldn't want to do her French or math homework. My son just told me that alef (in the Hebrew alphab…

> the trouble with it is they go down rabbit holes and they'll excel at one or two subjects to the detriment of others.

In what sense is that a form of "trouble"? How is it different from any other educational system?

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