Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Notes on Vision Pro

notes.andymatuschak.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

341–350 of 700 posts

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#341

Post by grogenaut »

silok wrote: post #282
grogenaut wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweating profusely in an electronics device... I've ruined ski goggles just sweating in them and they're meant for that. Also just stumbling with these on or slipping and there you go cracked $3500 screen.

Honestly, how often do you bang your head hard into a wall/floor? Sure, I'm a tall guy, roughly 200cm, and I sometimes bang my head in a overhead doorstock. But that is typically some old cottage or similar, where I would probably not bring a XR headset anyway.

I was taking while being tired from exercise. While skiing biking etc often. While doing vr, I've broken a monitor and gone through a wall and broken several controllers. While just waking around I forgot my shed had a low door and clipped my head last week first time in years. That's why I wear a effing helmet. You're blind on your stationary bike and pop off wrong. Done. Foot stays clipped in, faceplant.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#342

Post by Dalewyn »

jb1991 wrote: post #315

I use quite a few Apple products every day of the last 10 years, and I’m very impressed with certainly all the technology and reviews and explanations of how this device works and what the user experience will be. However, this is the first Apple device that really makes me pause. All of the marketing material, the WWDC videos, all of it feels very uncomfortable to see all these people isolating themselves in a room…

>And these 3D spacial moment recordings, imagine children growing up in a house where when something nice happens, the parent rushes to put on goggles and stare at them through them,

Isn't this what used to happen with camcorders and now with smartphones?

Hell, how many people watch live music events and the like in-person through a smartphone camera (assuming recording is okay)?

I understand where you're coming from, but it pays to take a step back and look at things from a wider and more fundamental perspective.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#343

Post by kkarakk »

hackernewds wrote: post #327
lolinder wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A game, any game. By far the most disappointing part of the keynote was when they finally do show someone playing a game, and it's a basketball game played with a regular controller on a flat, virtual TV. The TV is even smaller than an average real-world TV. It's typical of Apple to so completely ignore gaming, but it's disappointing that they're continuing that trend even with VR.

Because gamers, or even consumers, is not the target demographic for a $3500 device. They want to brand as a device for enthusiasts (but Apple everything!) or professional (work video chat, artists, graphic designers).

you mean the demographic that regularly buys enthusiast tier 2000 dollar pcs and 1500 dollar VR headsets is not a demo that apple wants to buy their enthusiast tier 3500 dollar device?

apple's anti-gamer slant has always stunk to me of some exec being salty about what went down with nvidia and hating the idea of ppl playing games. their slapfight with epic games is another example of them not giving 2 shits about the gaming market and alienating a highly growing userbase.hell they didn't mention live streaming at all and that seems like a usecase this thing is tailor built to be good at considering how many cameras and screens it has!

meanwhile they want people to buy into apple arcade...

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#344

Post by mellosouls »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #310

I think Apple is doing smart things here with their software: - leverage existing content means they won't have an empty room problem or a big "now what?!" moment for users after the novelty wears off. Without Steam, most existing VR platforms would be completely pointless. So far VR is for games and most of those are published on Steam. That's because most VR hardware vendors suck at software and end up outsourcing…

It is very unfortunate the way that we see repeated claims here either implying or directly stating there is something revolutionary, besides the power (and matching price) without any acknowledgement of the existing space.

a focus on the living room experience with a high end movie theater experience running, again, off existing content. Genius move

Cool. Tell NReal and BigScreen that, they and others have already done it on Quest and other platforms. Nothing new here.

Without Steam, most existing VR platforms would be completely pointless. So far VR is for games and most of those are published on Steam.

Tell that to the many Quest users who have delighted in the wireless experience and superb exercise apps and other new vistas opened up to them in their existing platform, including remote working via services like Immersed. The latter can absolutely be boosted with the new specs the Vision Pro is bringing.

Look, this is a bold move by Apple, and I applaud it; I think it could give a welcome boost to the industry but please can we stop with the nonsense about them creating something that wasn't already there, or at least elaborate what it brings and improves with reference to the prior art.

That information - which I don't doubt is there, this is an exciting product - will be genuinely useful.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#345

Post by Dalewyn »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #310

I think Apple is doing smart things here with their software: - leverage existing content means they won't have an empty room problem or a big "now what?!" moment for users after the novelty wears off. Without Steam, most existing VR platforms would be completely pointless. So far VR is for games and most of those are published on Steam. That's because most VR hardware vendors suck at software and end up outsourcing…

>a focus on the living room experience with a high end movie theater experience

One of my biggest impressions watching Apple's trailer was that this paints a big target on televisions and home theater hardware in general.

If the experience is executed well, it would be much cheaper (yes, really) and easier and simpler to just get Apple's VR goggle instead of a TV and peripherals that will infuriate you.

Clearly we live in interesting times.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#346

Post by jillesvangurp »

kristianc wrote: post #317
jillesvangurp wrote: post #310

I think Apple is doing smart things here with their software: - leverage existing content means they won't have an empty room problem or a big "now what?!" moment for users after the novelty wears off. Without Steam, most existing VR platforms would be completely pointless. So far VR is for games and most of those are published on Steam. That's because most VR hardware vendors suck at software and end up outsourcing…

If the strategy is fully about content (which would make this device about selling services on top of the Vision Pro), why is the Vision Pro specced as it is, and why is the price point so high? The specification of the device seems to be complete overkill for the kind of strategy you are describing, which frankly does not need extreme hardware power, and makes it cost prohibitive to many of the people who would othe…

It's specced the way it is to deliver the best in class, best possible content experience without compromises in initially small volumes. Neither of those things is an accident. Scaling up manufacturing is hard and expensive. Much easier to create a lot of hype for an expensive device that is going to be so popular that they won't be able to satisfy demand. So, they'll make lots of them and sell out in no time. The ebay value of these things is going to be insane.

By the way, this is a similar price point to the magic leap and holo lens devices. This just seems to be what it takes for a state of the art AR/MR experience.

And it's not like there is a shortage of very wealthy people buying things like Teslas, ipad pros, fully specced out iphones, that carry thousands of dollars worth of equipment. For those people 3500$ is just the right level of premium and exclusivity. Like it or not, Apple is very good at separating people like that from their cash. There are millions of them and most of them are already loyal customers. There is no need for a lower price point and there absolutely is no need to compromise on quality.

The goal isn't to make you happy but to make you crave something you can't afford yet. So, when the time comes you'll be spending a bit more than is comfortable for you. That's what Apple does. They leave the low margin scraps to others.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#347

Post by kkarakk »

mk_stjames wrote: post #107
BoppreH wrote: post #51

I echo the awe at the hardware and the disappointment at the paradigm. I wish the keynote had three extra demos: - Something whimsical to inspire developers. Give me files represented as physical blocks that I can pile, or a task manager that shows processes as plants around me. Close apps by scrunching their screen like paper. A globe with my geotagged pictures. - A game, any game. Beat Saber was the killer app for…

> Give me files represented as physical blocks that I can pile Man, people still want a file manager like fsn on IRIX systems, 30 years later...

VisionOS uses old school UI like blocks and doesn't do anything new in terms of just reusing design paradigms from ipadOS/macOS. It makes sense why people would think of it just as a computer they strap to their face.

Half of their marketing was about how it's a essentially a macbook that you strap to your face...

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#348

Post by danielbln »

jb1991 wrote: post #315

I use quite a few Apple products every day of the last 10 years, and I’m very impressed with certainly all the technology and reviews and explanations of how this device works and what the user experience will be. However, this is the first Apple device that really makes me pause. All of the marketing material, the WWDC videos, all of it feels very uncomfortable to see all these people isolating themselves in a room…

Apple's goal is surely to get away from the google form factor asap, and once we're at a pair of slick glasses I don't think you'd even think twice about it.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#349

Post by hparadiz »

jb1991 wrote: post #315

I use quite a few Apple products every day of the last 10 years, and I’m very impressed with certainly all the technology and reviews and explanations of how this device works and what the user experience will be. However, this is the first Apple device that really makes me pause. All of the marketing material, the WWDC videos, all of it feels very uncomfortable to see all these people isolating themselves in a room…

I don't know if you've ever seen Serial Experiments Lain. In it the protagonist slowly descends into an underground of hackers while finding herself isolated in a room with all sorts of mid 90s aesthetic crt monitors, servers, tubes and wires. And that is more what my current office looks like as opposed to someone hanging out on a couch wearing this headset. If the user interface is to be believed you can in theory do real work with just your eyes and your voice to dictate. It got me thinking. What is really a dystopia? What if our current keyboard and mouse desktop setups, laptops, and displays are the real dystopia?

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#350

Post by ask_b123 »

mcintyre1994 wrote: post #296
russellbeattie wrote: post #15

> But it does put an enormous amount of pressure on the eye tracking. As far as I can tell so far, the role of precise 2D control has been shifted to the eyes. I've been researching eye tracking for my own project for the past year. I have a Tobii eye tracker which is probably the best eye tracking device for consumers currently (or the only one really). It's much more accurate than trying to repurpose a webcam. The…

> If you were to simply connect your mouse pointer to your gaze, for example, any sort of hover effect on a web page would be activated simply by glancing at it. I’m curious about how they deal with apparently not doing this, in terms of how do you know what button is going to be clicked if you click? The product page under privacy says that websites and apps don’t get eye tracking data, only knowing when you click,…

I’m sure the info. is in one of the WWDC videos, but I imagine the hover effect could be activated by the OS without notifying the webpage.
Post reply on HN