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Apple Vision

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Re: Apple Vision

#341

Post by asim »

killjoywashere wrote: post #307

I really worry that if AR/VR like Apple Vision takes off, we are going to find ourselves even more alone, isolated, and depressed than ever, separated from the physical humanity we all evolved to live in. Putting a screen between everything is the theme of so many dystopian movies I don't even know where to start. I mean, I get it. I really, really do. But, man, is this healthy, really?

It's not healthy. It's not healthy because as devices and software improves people who are in isolation use it as a further form of isolation. It's easier to escape into technology than it is to go out and interact with real humans. Life is messy, it's hard but it's entirely rewarding and what we need. But everything we've now come to know in the past three decades has taken us in a different direction. The technology has its valued when used for specific purposes. But when it becomes the all consuming thing that people use to attempt to solve those deeply troubling problems, that's when we have an issue.

So I think part of this only exacerbates escapism. Getting back to true reality is going to require a fundamental jolt to humanity.

Re: Apple Vision

#342

Post by throw74775 »

tootie wrote: post #267
screye wrote: post #189

Now I am a lowly programmer + VR enthusiast, so my opinion does not count. But, how do big companies allow Apple to get away with such easy wins !?? Apple said : "We are going to throw infinite money at a pilot product that's basically a tech demo, and convince the market that this tech is for-real-for-real." Meanwhile, Facebook refused to create a balls-to-the-wall VR headset for years and still ended up with a cons…

Quest 2 is the best-selling headset to date. This Apple device will have an even smaller addressable market at the $3500 price. Meta can add more pixels faster than Apple can drop their price by 2/3. Really, Apple does a lot of things well, but their market supremacy is primarily due to marketing. They are incredibly well-positioned as a necessary luxury brand. They are "cool" while Android and Microsoft are not.

If Apple’s device is good enough to use for real work on a Mac and Meta’s product is not, it doesn’t matter how much cheaper it is.

Re: Apple Vision

#343

Post by mynameisvlad »

TobyTheDog123 wrote: post #297
beowulfey wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it’s as good as they say, then the market will show it. It’s not worth worrying about whether it will succeed or not; that’s Apple’s concern alone. We can all just enjoy the ride in the meantime.

This is why I dont understand all the doomerism. If Apple is totally bullshitting here, we're going to find out extremely quickly, which will undoubtedly harm their reputation in the space when it comes to the next generations. If they weren't confident it works almost as magically as its described, it would not have been shown.

Skepticism is not doomerism— and in fact should be praised.

Multiple companies have tried and failed. Their marketing demos looked just as compelling.

Sure, we will find out. Eventually. In over a year when it launches.

But until then, why should we trust companies who’s best interest is not to give us the truth on what their product is but rather the best possible vision for what it will be?

So far every single iteration on VR/AR/XR has been extremely disappointing once actually used, but with extremely high fidelity marketing demos. This might certainly be different, but until it’s proven that it is, why should people believe it? “Fool me once” and all that very much applies.

Re: Apple Vision

#344

Post by keiferski »

soylentcola wrote: post #321
keiferski wrote: post #62

Am I the only one that is surprised they went with the "all in the glasses" design? (Minus the exterior battery and cable.) I was expecting an extremely lightweight pair of glasses that wirelessly connects with a stationary device that provides most of the computing power for the VR/AR. That device could even be the new generation of iPhones... The design as-is looks better than 95% of other headsets, but still strik…

But if it's "extremely lightweight", where would you put the battery to power a high bandwidth transmitter/receiver? I can't imagine anything approaching the size of a pair of Wayfarers having space for the battery or electronics (not to mention all the optics and sensors!)

Not necessarily the size of a pair of Wayfarers, but maybe 50% the size of the actual one.

Re: Apple Vision

#345

Post by scarface_74 »

pavlov wrote: post #61
intev wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> demos that failed to deliver actual user value Does Apple have a a history of doing this? I think that's why people are excited.

Newton, Power Mac Cube, iMac G4 "Sunflower", and solid gold first-gen Apple Watch come to mind as Apple hardware products that failed to live up to the hype. On the software side there are more misses, but also the stakes are lower. It's a great track record for thirty years, of course. All the other big tech companies have graveyards full of half-assed product launches.

The Apple Watch is not a failure by any objective measure. It’s very profitable and by far the biggest in the industry. Everything else you name was pre-iPhone.

Re: Apple Vision

#346

Post by throw74775 »

_gabe_ wrote: post #138
pavlov wrote: post #35

"The company was fairly mum about how it planned to make those cameras and its format more widely available, but I am completely serious when I say that I would pay the NBA thousands of dollars to get a season pass to watch games captured in this way. Yes, that’s a crazy statement to make, but courtside seats cost that much or more, and that 10-second clip was shockingly close to the real thing." The author was shown…

Thank you, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills or something. I have no idea how much of the footage in the long advertisements are actual in-headset recording vs highly editorialized made up aspirational CG. Additionally, I really don't think all the people here singing the praises of Apple's currently nonexistent headset (for actual customer use at least until 2024 or something) have ever used a headset. Headsets giv…

Assuming Apple’s product has all the deficiencies of failed products from the past will of course lead you to conclude that they will fail.

Re: Apple Vision

#347

Post by bmitc »

neom wrote: post #230
screye wrote: post #189

Now I am a lowly programmer + VR enthusiast, so my opinion does not count. But, how do big companies allow Apple to get away with such easy wins !?? Apple said : "We are going to throw infinite money at a pilot product that's basically a tech demo, and convince the market that this tech is for-real-for-real." Meanwhile, Facebook refused to create a balls-to-the-wall VR headset for years and still ended up with a cons…

Apple seems to have two modes they do quite well, create tomorrow, refine today (as it pertains to technology/personal computing). Some % of the company seems to be focused on extremely polished loooonngg term second market mover advantage of bleeding edge tech, and some % of the company seems to be focused on continuous improvement of what exists today. Apple does a great job of working on cutting edge technology th…

> Apple seems to have two modes they do quite well, create tomorrow, refine today.

Isn't this a bit hyperbolic for a company that makes personal computers, smartphones, and tablets?

Re: Apple Vision

#348

Post by scarface_74 »

pavlov wrote: post #163
mcphage wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> iMac G4 "Sunflower" What was a failure about that? It looked good and worked well. > solid gold first-gen Apple Watch In what way did the gold watch fail? It was the first gen watch, the same hardware as the rest, just made of gold for rich people. It didn’t fail any more than any other color did.

Both failed badly to live up to Apple's sales expectations. The Sunflower iMac was discontinued even before its successor shipped. The Apple Watch Edition was supposed to grow Apple into a luxury brand and expand its margins massively (you can find many interviews with Jony Ive from 2015 where he explains this thinking). This strategy was a dud.

Have you looked at the revenue from their wearables category? If the Watch is a failure then the Mac is an abject failure.

Re: Apple Vision

#349

Post by speed_spread »

NLPaep wrote: post #4
nynx wrote: post #2

> It really is one of the best product names in Apple history: Vision is a description of a product, it is an aspiration for a use case, and it is a critique on the sort of society we are building, behind Apple’s leadership more than anyone else. I agree that “Vision” is a good product name, but “Vision Pro” just feels intensely pedestrian. Why is it called “Pro?” Is there a non-Pro version?

Yes, a non-Pro version is arriving later.

There will also be the Apple Vision Bro.

Re: Apple Vision

#350

Post by barbariangrunge »

screye wrote: post #189

Now I am a lowly programmer + VR enthusiast, so my opinion does not count. But, how do big companies allow Apple to get away with such easy wins !?? Apple said : "We are going to throw infinite money at a pilot product that's basically a tech demo, and convince the market that this tech is for-real-for-real." Meanwhile, Facebook refused to create a balls-to-the-wall VR headset for years and still ended up with a cons…

> T̶o̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶f̶a̶i̶r̶,̶ ̶C̶a̶r̶m̶a̶c̶k̶ ̶h̶a̶d̶ ̶b̶e̶e̶n̶ ̶p̶u̶s̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶a̶n̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶-̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶d̶e̶v̶i̶c̶e̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶g̶o̶t̶ ̶s̶i̶d̶e̶l̶i̶n̶e̶d̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶Z̶u̶c̶k̶'̶s̶ ̶p̶u̶s̶h̶ ̶t̶o̶w̶a̶r̶d̶s̶ ̶c̶h̶e̶a̶p̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶s̶c̶a̶l̶e̶.̶ (I might have mis-remembered)

According to the Lex Friedman podcast interview with Carmack, Carmack has been pushing for lower spec, cheap VR, probably on a phone, IIRC. Something people can afford and use day to day

Then, using better use of hardware resources to push more performance out of vr/ar apps.

He believes more in optimization than ordinary programmers. Doom runs on modern conference phones and smart appliances

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