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SEC Sues Binance and CEO Zhao for Breaking US Securities Rules

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Re: SEC Sues Binance and CEO Zhao for Breaking US Securities Rules

#341

Not a Binance fan but in this context, and considering the SECs unwillingness of declaring when cryptocurrencies are securities or not, it's pretty clear that they go after Binance for strategic reasons. Not sure but I assume this is controlled by the Biden admin.

They have been very clear. Everything except bitcoin. Crypto people just don't like the response.

Re: SEC Sues Binance and CEO Zhao for Breaking US Securities Rules

#342
post #185
post #110

I remember the last post from Fred Wilson: "The Freedom To Innovate" [1]. Even if the SEC is right about Binance and others, and there are without doubt blatant and huge frauds in Web3, there are huge problems with the financial modernization within the US (and the world). Domestic wire transfers in US takes longer and are more expensive than in Europe and developing countries such as Brazil and Argentina. The SEC is…

Domestic wire transfers in US takes longer and are more expensive than in Europe and developing countries such as Brazil and Argentina Do you think the US is incapable of sending an immediate message transferring money? Of course the US has that technical capability. AML, BSA, KYC, Anti-Fraud. These are a few of the things that slow down the transfers and add to the cost. A lot of people think they're a feature, not…

Plenty of countries around the world have all of that _and_ instant payments.

But that takes cooperation, which is incompatible with The American Way of “Winner takes all and the more people you can downtread on the way to the top, the better”

Re: SEC Sues Binance and CEO Zhao for Breaking US Securities Rules

#343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ignoring the "Anglosaxon" buzzword The 'Anglosaxon' term is a long-standing political science, history and diplomacy term. Its not something that can be ignored, especially because... > none of this is unique conceptually to US law ... it is. The common law derives from the medieval !Anglosaxon! feudal law, which is based on contracts, agreements, negotiations and precedents. It can be 'interpreted' by the judge, w…

The problem with writing that your company is knowingly committing a crime in an instant message to colleagues has little do with "negotiation" and everything to do with evidence , which funnily enough is taken into account in most legal systems influenced by Napoleonic codes... It may surprised you to learn that criminals also commit crimes and lie about them in countries whose legal system is not based on common la…

Their entire statement of

> civil law system ... does not rely on agreements, contracts, negotiations or precedents. It cannot be 'interpreted'

betrays that they've never examined legal proceedings in either system.

Contracts apparently don't exist in civil law, and when asked to explain the differences between "Jurisprudence Constante" and "Stare Decisis", I guess "Jurisprudence Constante" means precedent doesn't exist!

I think they're confused on the differing weight and roles of case law in rendering decisions between the two systems, and over corrected.

Re: SEC Sues Binance and CEO Zhao for Breaking US Securities Rules

#344
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting this here in case it's useful. Please correct if it's wrong. What is the Howey test for whether something is a security? """ The Howey Test asks whether a transaction constitutes an "investment contract," which is a type of security. If it is an investment contract, it must satisfy four criteria: It is an investment of money. The investment is in a common enterprise. There is an expectation of profits from th…

[flagged]

A dinner is a classic example of consumer spending...

The only way this could be considered an investment is if you bought a crate of wine bottles at a bulk discount and sold the left over wine bottles to third parties and used the proceeds to pay for the dinner.

Re: SEC Sues Binance and CEO Zhao for Breaking US Securities Rules

#345
post #40

> In one instance, the Binance chief compliance officer messaged a colleague that, “[w]e are operating as a fking unlicensed securities exchange in the USA bro.” Source: https://twitter.com/JohnReedStark/status/1665748594421297152 This is a legendary quote from the filing.

My theory is that Binance execs were having these chats in an encrypted medium (e.g. WA or Signal) but didn't secure themselves against a defector. I think someone on the inside took screenshots and went to the feds (or started cooperating under legal pressure). There's even a leading candidate [0]. What's funny about this is it's a fine metaphor for what ails crypto as a whole. The technology is cryptographically se…

> What's funny about this is it's a fine metaphor for what ails crypto as a whole. The technology is cryptographically secure, but not at all robust to much simpler betrayals, hacks, etc. If you trust overmuch in the tech and don't focus on less technically interesting but more fundamental threats, you're apt to get rekt.

That applies to all things within technology, OPSEC/INFOSEC is the very study of how to mitigate those very leaky channels, which are impossible tasks to accomplish entirely because of Human nature. I recall a post here some time ago that says that most non-leak related hacks are mainly due to social engineering, as that is the most viable way to take down an asset/target.

Honestly, CZ will likely brush this off; the US is being incredibly hostile to all things that threaten the USD; it make sense, and those that thought the USD and BTC could co-exist in the US were disillusion because of things like this.

Even that scrub Armstrong is starting to see why his pursuits to cozy up to the VC crowds and US regulators only prolonged the inevitable wherein this will return to a regulatory nightmare that favours other nations; mainland China under the CCP will continue to ban it (for nth time) in order to stifle the immense amount of capital flight out of China but it will remain legal in Hong Kong with favourable and relaxed regulations. Once again favouring the afflurent and political;ly connected who can incorporate in an absurdly HCL safe-haven like HK and excluding the poors from utilizing financial services that could help them from the exposure to the collapsing banking sector.

And thus proving again that unless its a situation like El Salvador where it becomes a national currency there is nothing to indicate that politicians have the will or ability to actually put clear regulation in place for Capital and innovation to progress in Fintech.

Which would be obvious if you have any semblance of why Cypherpunks and renowned economist like Hayek considered a free-floating, non-state issued currency the most critical thing for a free Society.

National Fiat currencies have a limited life-span, typically 35-40 years, and this always leads to economic turmoil and inevitably war; which always favours nations who can impose their neo-bondage via entities like the IMF and World Bank when the dust settles and then gain access to cheap resources, and Human capital.

Anyhow, I'm not surprised this happened, but it's a nothing-burger that will be good for those DCA there way back into this market (myself included).

[0]: https://cointelegraph.com/news/china-gains-from-strict-us-cr...

Re: SEC Sues Binance and CEO Zhao for Breaking US Securities Rules

#346
post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with writing that your company is knowingly committing a crime in an instant message to colleagues has little do with "negotiation" and everything to do with evidence , which funnily enough is taken into account in most legal systems influenced by Napoleonic codes... It may surprised you to learn that criminals also commit crimes and lie about them in countries whose legal system is not based on common la…

Their entire statement of > civil law system ... does not rely on agreements, contracts, negotiations or precedents. It cannot be 'interpreted' betrays that they've never examined legal proceedings in either system. Contracts apparently don't exist in civil law, and when asked to explain the differences between "Jurisprudence Constante" and "Stare Decisis", I guess "Jurisprudence Constante" means precedent doesn't ex…

> Contracts apparently don't exist in civil law

This does sound like insincere debate. Where does in my comments it says that contracts dont exist in civil law. It says civil law is not BASED on contracts, agreeements and precedents. The common law is.

And no, the complications that are so beautifully and 'respectably' named in the common law dont exist in civil law. The law is always clear - if something is not covered by an immediate law, it is covered by a broader law that affects those cases.

Re: SEC Sues Binance and CEO Zhao for Breaking US Securities Rules

#347
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting this here in case it's useful. Please correct if it's wrong. What is the Howey test for whether something is a security? """ The Howey Test asks whether a transaction constitutes an "investment contract," which is a type of security. If it is an investment contract, it must satisfy four criteria: It is an investment of money. The investment is in a common enterprise. There is an expectation of profits from th…

who is buying crypto and not expecting to make a profit from it?

For many people inside an defintely outside the USA sphere, theres a lot of utility in holding some cash money in Crypto even as a staging point for payments.

Re: SEC Sues Binance and CEO Zhao for Breaking US Securities Rules

#348
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> No reason profits can't be something other than cash. Other then the legal definition.....

Most tax laws don't make such a distinction. Whether you're receiving cash, or some other asset you're taxed on that as income.

Re: SEC Sues Binance and CEO Zhao for Breaking US Securities Rules

#349
post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long standing in what circles? I've only seen it in Russian derived or connected media, political think, and institutions. The primary source of papers using that term to refer to US law seems to be the Russian State University of Justice. I don't think I've seen an authoritative source elsewhere use it, because it would be like pretending the Norman conquest never had an effect on legal proceedings. As if there is s…

> Long standing in what circles? Long standing in history, long standing in diplomacy, long standing in actual freaking Louis XIV administration communique, long standing in practically everything. No offense but just because you people have a beef with Russia at the moment and they are using the term, the rest of the world is not going to change how they speak so that you dont get offended. > I don't think I've seen…

> Long standing in history, long standing in diplomacy, long standing in actual freaking Louis XIV administration communique, long standing in practically everything.

That's neat, the dead are welcome to their opinions. That doesn't change where or why it's used primarily by certain parties in their English facing media.

> No offense but just because you people have a beef with Russia at the moment and they are using the term, the rest of the world is not going to change how they speak so that you dont get offended.

I never asked them to-- if that's the phrasing in their native language, then so be it. Same reason why we can call Germany the name "Germany".

But it clearly has a different meaning in English.

> Obviously you are not a student of history.

I'll admit error if you can find a source, that's not Russian, that uses it to refer to modern US law-- even if it's just a translation from another language.

The problem is I'm having a hard time finding one on my own.

Re: SEC Sues Binance and CEO Zhao for Breaking US Securities Rules

#350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some evidence that the Howey test isn't that objective and clear: 1) Gary Gensler, now SEC chairman, used to claim that 3/4 of the cryptocurrency market were not securities[0]. He has changed his tune significantly since then. 2) The SEC chairman can't answer this simple question: "is Ethereum a commodity or a security?"[1]. [0] https://twitter.com/ZK_shark/status/1650689125580668931 [1] https://youtu.be/h_oAr4wn7M4?…

> Gary Gensler, now SEC chairman, used to claim that 3/4 of the cryptocurrency market were not securities[0]. He has changed his tune significantly since then. Has he? Most of the market is Bitcoin and Ethereum. To my knowledge, the SEC hasn't gone after anyone solely cashing trading those. > 2) The SEC chairman can't answer this simple question: "is Ethereum a commodity or a security? He also doesn't have to answer…

Most company ICOs are clearly securities. Everything else is most likely not.
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