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HP disables customers’ printers if they use ink cartridges from cheaper rivals

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: HP disables customers’ printers if they use ink cartridges from cheaper rivals

#341

Post by 8note »

crazygringo wrote: post #198
kerkeslager wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No they don't, they get passed on to shareholders. The market cap of the company decreases by the amount of the fine (plus any predicted future effect of the lost money) and the stock price goes down to reflect that. Ehh, if they have to, but execs are going to do their very best not to pass on costs to shareholders. Even if shareholders foot the bill, why would that be a desirable outcome? Are you arguing that we…

> but execs are going to do their very best not to pass on costs to shareholders. But it's not up to execs, execs don't control the share price, no matter how much they wish they could. The market does. The market sees the fine, it adjusts the market cap, done. > Even if shareholders foot the bill, why would that be a desirable outcome? Because shareholders elected the board. That's the entire foundation of joint-sto…

What does a fine day about future growt, isn't the expectation of fines already priced in, so when it happens, the stock price should go up?

Re: HP disables customers’ printers if they use ink cartridges from cheaper rivals

#342

Post by nemothekid »

cubefox wrote: post #11

This issue is discussed for over 20 years now, it baffles me that there is apparently still no established solution. By the way, Apple forcing users to install apps only via its 30% fee AppStore has provoked far less outrage. Probably because people are not directly aware of the Apple premium, in contrast to the HP premium.

>Probably because people are not directly aware of the Apple premium,

It's because it's developers who piss and moan about the 30%, while most consumers get value from having to go through the AppStore, such as 1.) being able to cancel subscriptions quickly and easily and 2.) ensuring that developers aren't abusing permissions to siphon data from the device.

Re: HP disables customers’ printers if they use ink cartridges from cheaper rivals

#343

Post by 8note »

brewdad wrote: post #303
bluescrn wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prison is excessive. But how about some sort of environmental levy on any device prematurely 'bricked', or disposed of before reaching a certain lifespan. Including those bricked by server shutdowns, or by the inevitable failure of non-replaceable batteries. Perhaps even those designed to be somewhat fragile but not economically repairable - thinking of all the phones and tablets discarded due to cracked screens.

Isn’t an environmental levy just a fine? Maybe prison is excessive but there needs to be a way to punish bad actors personally on an individual level. It’s clear that current corporate level fines aren’t effective.

It's costed in differently.

A fine requires you to be sued, whereas the levy applies immediately

Re: HP disables customers’ printers if they use ink cartridges from cheaper rivals

#345

Post by emodendroket »

local_crmdgeon wrote: post #255
makeitdouble wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is one of those really good "vote with your wallets" situations. This is a really good situation for actual voting, like actual political action to have regulation, instead of pretend voting. HP probably doesn't give a damn about the HN crowd, it won't affect their business line in the little, so there's no signaling here. And assuming Brother gets enough of a loyal following, they can now (probably already ar…

Hard disagree. This is how Chrome won the browser wars - people ask their nerdy cousin which browser to use. The market of HN is small, but the market power is large. Also, I guarantee you people here make large corporate purchases for things like printers, networking equipment - stuff HP cares about.

I think plastering it all over Google's home page probably did more.

Re: HP disables customers’ printers if they use ink cartridges from cheaper rivals

#346

Post by emodendroket »

hypercube33 wrote: post #311
ranting-moth wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite. They're disabling printers today that were functional yesterday. There's no HP cartridge to put back in, unless I go and buy one. The printer is disabled until I give HP money. I call that extortion.

in a free market shouldn't hp be forced to lower it's prices to compete with 3rd party to a little more than their price since it technically is OEM? I mean like car parts

"Free markets" are created by governments and ours hasn't evinced an interest in this particular problem.

Re: HP disables customers’ printers if they use ink cartridges from cheaper rivals

#347

Post by emodendroket »

snvzz wrote: post #116

Where are the Open Source Hardware printers? Literally everybody (except printer makers) hates the printer landscape. All we'd need is to pool money to design a cost-effective open source hardware modular monochrome laser printer with open firmware.

Who exactly is looking at the stagnant or shrinking printer market and deciding they want to get into manufacturing them?

Re: HP disables customers’ printers if they use ink cartridges from cheaper rivals

#348

Post by underwater »

detrites wrote: post #79
mcny wrote: post #12

The CEO and the board must serve prison time for things like this. No measure less than prison for the CEO and all board members is enough to curtail this because it just becomes the cost of doing business. No, you can’t say it wasn’t your decision. If you want to not be held accountable for the work your employees, contractors, and agents do on your behalf, you should have to prove they acted against your express wr…

While I generally agree, there's something more immediate. All of us having this view can refuse to ever buy or even use HP products, and explain to anyone and everyone at every opportunity exactly why this is. Boycotts can be immensely powerful, and strike fear into the hearts of those who would exploit us. Personally, I will never buy an HP product again. Absolute, permanent blacklist. It's simply way too disgustin…

Let's apply the same logic to people then. "John scammed his neighbour of his life savings, we don't need to lock him up because lots of people will refuse to associate with him or supply him with goods and services."

Making loss of business or minor fines the only mechanism for correcting behaviour, means that the leaders can view antisocial and unethical behaviour as a cost benefit tradeoff. And the lack of personal accountability means the company leadership has very limited downside, even if they completely screw up.

Re: HP disables customers’ printers if they use ink cartridges from cheaper rivals

#349

Post by 8note »

local_crmdgeon wrote: post #255
makeitdouble wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is one of those really good "vote with your wallets" situations. This is a really good situation for actual voting, like actual political action to have regulation, instead of pretend voting. HP probably doesn't give a damn about the HN crowd, it won't affect their business line in the little, so there's no signaling here. And assuming Brother gets enough of a loyal following, they can now (probably already ar…

Hard disagree. This is how Chrome won the browser wars - people ask their nerdy cousin which browser to use. The market of HN is small, but the market power is large. Also, I guarantee you people here make large corporate purchases for things like printers, networking equipment - stuff HP cares about.

Chrome only won the browser wars because Microsoft was hit by people's votes on anti-trust.

Re: HP disables customers’ printers if they use ink cartridges from cheaper rivals

#350

Post by emodendroket »

WalterBright wrote: post #2

Selling something, and then remotely disabling it without the purchaser's knowledge or consent, sounds like vandalism to me.

I would imagine their claim (probably written somewhere when you bought it) is that they do not guarantee it will work with any third-party components.
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