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Dishwasher Salmon

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Re: Dishwasher Salmon

#341

Post by mattmaroon »

pvaldes wrote: post #323
mattmaroon wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So has the raw salmon at the grocery store. You’d have a hard time buying fish that hasn’t been previously frozen, you just don’t know it because grocery stores thaw it before it goes into the display case.

> You’d have a hard time buying fish that hasn’t been previously frozen Maybe in some places but nor all. Raw salmon is fresh when sold. Most of this fishes are domestic. It does not have sense economically to spend energy freezing a product that you can kill and put in the market by plane the same day. Also there would be a problem with re-freezing a frozen fish. Sushi bars store the products in a special ultrafreez…

Also I don’t think sushi restaurants typically have any special freezers for this. You can reach the required level in a regular commercial freezer. -4F for one week. Any commercial freezer gets that cold, and that step is taken by the wholesalers anyway for any sushi that requires it.

Re: Dishwasher Salmon

#342

Post by Jolter »

hydrok9 wrote: post #327
Jolter wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is! Still it’s part of Eastern Europe, by some definitions. See the Wikipedia page for Eastern Europe. All in all it’s a useless moniker these days for most purposes.

Only in the context of the former USSR are those states considered "eastern". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Europe#/media/File:Gro...

There are two maps on the same Wikipedia page that put the three mentioned countries in Eastern Europe.

It’s still a useless term.

Re: Dishwasher Salmon

#343

Post by joecool1029 »

mattmaroon wrote: post #318
bookofjoe wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "raw" salmon at sushi bars has previously been frozen.

So has the raw salmon at the grocery store. You’d have a hard time buying fish that hasn’t been previously frozen, you just don’t know it because grocery stores thaw it before it goes into the display case.

I looked into this awhile back. While you're correct about previous freezing this is about mitigating microbe risk, not parasite destruction. The FDA has a specification that the fish must be frozen down to in order to ensure destruction of parasites. (I couldn't find a direct link to the FDA's guideline, here's one from MN that's the same: https://www.health.state.mn.us/communities/environment/food/... )

Ahi Tuna and most farmed Atlantic salmon (Norway is especially safe: https://web.archive.org/web/20200426100625/https://nifes.hi.... ) have low to no parasite risk. However, I would not buy and eat wild salmon sashimi without at least freezing for a week first. Even retailers as big as Costco don't have freezers meeting the guideline.

Re: Dishwasher Salmon

#344

Post by dctoedt »

tptacek wrote: post #15
Ryder123 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t mean to be an ass, but in no way is a sous vide fundamentally the same concept as a dishwasher. There is no precision to the temperature or time control of a dishwasher, and there’s no dry cycle on a sous vide.

People approximate "sous vide" on cooktops or in coolers all the time. Works fine. About half the things I used to do with my circulator I do with specific time/temp settings on my toaster oven now. If you wanted to be super pedantic about it, you'd say that none of this is anything like "sous vide" because "sous vide" implies "under a vacuum". At any rate: dishwasher salmon and sous vide salmon are, literally, the s…

What toaster oven do you use? We've put ours away because it hasn't been that great.

Re: Dishwasher Salmon

#345

Post by messe »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #321
carlosjobim wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not all salmon species are sashimi-grade. You should never eat any fish or flesh cooked that you wouldn't eat raw.

This simply isn't true. Some things are perfectly safe cooked but unsafe when raw. Pork is a good example of this: Folks get parasites from undercooked pork. (I'm sure there are others, I just know this with pork). Cooking meat saves live and helps prevent food-born illnesses. Heck, this isn't even true with vegetables. Kidney beans need to be properly cooked so they aren't toxic. One kidney bean is enough to cause s…

> Pork is a good example of this: Folks get parasites from undercooked pork

I recall reading that that’s extraordinarily rare these days, no pun intended. It’s often okay to cook pork medium rare (or lower).

Re: Dishwasher Salmon

#346

Post by tptacek »

dctoedt wrote: post #344
tptacek wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People approximate "sous vide" on cooktops or in coolers all the time. Works fine. About half the things I used to do with my circulator I do with specific time/temp settings on my toaster oven now. If you wanted to be super pedantic about it, you'd say that none of this is anything like "sous vide" because "sous vide" implies "under a vacuum". At any rate: dishwasher salmon and sous vide salmon are, literally, the s…

What toaster oven do you use? We've put ours away because it hasn't been that great.

We've got a Breville. It's the most valuable cooking appliance in the house: it gets up to 500f very quickly and holds a much more consistent temperature than our pro-grade oven, and the built in timer makes most things fire and forget. I don't think I'd trade the oven for another Breville toaster oven, but if I could get 2 more in exchange for the oven I'd have to think carefully about it.

Re: Dishwasher Salmon

#347

Post by giantg2 »

pvaldes wrote: post #338
giantg2 wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Not all salmon species are sashimi-grade." Do you mean the parasite destructor process doesn't work on all species? If so, do you have some info on that?

Some populations have more parasites than other. Sashimi is cut in fine translucent lames in part for easing to spot the parasites (or more precisely to verify the absence of parasites).

But if you're using the freezing method, the parasites will still be there but be dead. Using modern methods, it seems any species of salmon is safe to use for sashimi. Some are just more palatable than others.

Re: Dishwasher Salmon

#348

Post by joecool1029 »

pvaldes wrote: post #323
mattmaroon wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So has the raw salmon at the grocery store. You’d have a hard time buying fish that hasn’t been previously frozen, you just don’t know it because grocery stores thaw it before it goes into the display case.

> You’d have a hard time buying fish that hasn’t been previously frozen Maybe in some places but nor all. Raw salmon is fresh when sold. Most of this fishes are domestic. It does not have sense economically to spend energy freezing a product that you can kill and put in the market by plane the same day. Also there would be a problem with re-freezing a frozen fish. Sushi bars store the products in a special ultrafreez…

> Most of this fishes are domestic.

Completely wrong, Spain relies on imports from Norway and Sweden for farmed salmon and the US for wild pacific salmon. Domestic production is negligible: https://www.tridge.com/data-insights/market-price-atlantic-s...

> Sushi bars store the products in a special ultrafreeze storage,for some time. They are obliged by law to do this.

Maybe in Spain, this is not required by the restaurant in the US, some jurisdictions require recordkeeping to prove their suppliers froze this for them (NYC) and most source from a parasite-free supplier but the restaurant itself only needs to maintain safe storage temperature. The FDA guidelines are enforced by local health jurisdictions in the US and may not be in complete alignment. More on it: https://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/08/nyregion/sushi-fresh-from...

Re: Dishwasher Salmon

#349

Post by pvaldes »

giantg2 wrote: post #347
pvaldes wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some populations have more parasites than other. Sashimi is cut in fine translucent lames in part for easing to spot the parasites (or more precisely to verify the absence of parasites).

But if you're using the freezing method, the parasites will still be there but be dead. Using modern methods, it seems any species of salmon is safe to use for sashimi. Some are just more palatable than others.

If the parasites are visible my understanding is that is not sashimi grade meat and would be smoked or processed in several ways instead. I assume that Japanese would assure to remove any undesirable aspect in the meat before to make the fish and serve it just because would ruin aesthetics. I could be wrong.

Re: Dishwasher Salmon

#350

Post by joecool1029 »

mattmaroon wrote: post #340
schwartzworld wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sushi freezers are colder than regular freezers. This is real galaxy brain stuff.

Ha. I don’t think it’s even true. I mean it wouldn’t surprise me if some sushi restaurant somewhere had such things, but restaurant supply companies don’t sell extra cold freezers. Seafood wholesalers might have such things but I’d wager the vast majority of sushi restaurants are using regular freezers.

Correct, however they do exist and some higher-end restaurants use them. Places usually advertise them as 'super freezers' that operate at -60C, some of the michelin star type restaurants go deeper with medical cryocoolers. It's becoming more common now that places like NYC have a regulation requiring freezing (where before a restaurant could just source from a parasite-free supplier).
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