Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even in the absolute worst case scenario for Trump (he loses and... has a massive fine? Is in jail for a bit?), this is a huge boost to Trump's campaign handed to him on a silver platter. Honestly thats exactly what Democrats want too, as they would rather run against Trump than Desantis or a Never Trumper.
I don't really understand this. What evidence is there that this is the case?
Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump
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Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump
#342Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure if there’s an actual crime, but what exactly is worthy of charging here? The point of a fair justice system is not to charge a specific someone with something , it’s to go after a specific crime. The legal gymnastics this DA is jumping through to attach charges here makes a joke of the entire justice system. I won’t be surprise if Bragg is disbarred for this.
How can you know this? The indictment hasn’t even been unsealed.
It has a negative political impact upon his chosen party. The truth of the crimes are irrelevant. If Trump were to plead guilty — and given his notoriously stupid outbursts he may — it wouldn’t matter. Only party matters, not guilt or innocence.
Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump
#343Earlier quoted context omitted.
Doesn't the US credibly threaten to invade the Hague should any international court there decide to pursue charges against an American citizen? Best you could hope for is domestic charges or for Kissinger to make a visit to Viet Nam and get arrested there.
I don't think one NATO country can credibly threaten to invade another, so not really, no... But clearly the US did not sign up to the international criminal court / war crimes courts etc because they were worried about random US DoD personnel who killed civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan being hauled in front of the court. Somebody like Robert Bales for instance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kandahar_massacre As he…
Greece and Turkey have been credibly threatening each other for decades.
Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump
#344Earlier quoted context omitted.
eh, i'm guessing nothing much will come of it and no one will much care. everytime people are freaking out online about something, that's how it goes. give it a week. but it opens the door to some funny possibilities. my guess is--if it comes to it--biden will pardon trump, which would be very funny. another interesting scenario is if trump goes to jail, he can still run for president, and honestly, i think that woul…
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Which "top Democrats" have expressed this opinion?
You're all over this thread repeatedly making this claim (seven times so far), and it's got https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoy4_h7Pb3M vibes.
Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump
#345Biden pardons Trump. Outrage mitigated. Base can’t rage. Biden easily wins re-election.
Perhaps. There would also be justifiable outrage by reasonable people.
Pardoning Trump would continue the example set by Gerald Ford in pardoning Nixon.
"Helping the country heal" seems hollow to me. To use a few metaphors:
1. Physical healing can't properly happen until the foreign object is cleared and infection removed from the body.
2. Mental healing doesn't fully happen until person comes to terms with what's happened. Burying the trauma is a risky time-bomb of a "solution".
If injustice goes unpunished or unaddressed, victims typically don't have closure. They lose confidence in the rule of law. Some take it into their own hands.
Large portions of the American public have been traumatized by Trump's behavior. We are seeking justice.
And any temporary comfort from pardoning Trump would be undermined by the uneven application of justice.
Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump
#346Alright let me make the argument why indicting Trump is a horrible idea. It's really not hard to see why, if you have any insight into what the other side thinks: 1. First there are two alternative realities being played in real time in US: This arguably is the first time this has happened in US history (maybe civil war was another time) but two populations have become so isolated that they essentially live in 2 diff…
I understand your point and understanding both sides of the country is very important, but so also is justice. I mean, what if he is guilty? If 48% of the population is ticked off by a guilty conviction that theoretically could be correct, that shouldn't stop us from convicting a criminal. I'm not saying Trump is a criminal; I am not on the jury and do not have the facts. But I'm saying someone should be convicted if…
Let he who is without sin throw the first stone.
Should Joe Biden be prosecuted for negligently storing classified documents in his home? Every person in the US is guilty of some baseline level of criminality, and the more “interesting” your life, the more crimes you are likely to have committed.
If the US wants to have non-criminal presidents then it should reform its vast state and federal criminal codes so that such a person can actually exist. Until that happens, a norm against criminalizing ex-presidents (except for serious crimes) is a good norm to have.
[I’m not sure it has to be said here, but my political beliefs are completely disjoint with Trump’s]
Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump
#347I think it sets a good precedent. If indicting past presidents (and vice presidents) for crimes committed while in office (or while running for office), well, the courts are going to be busy on this front for years to come. Bush and Cheney are certainly candidates, r.e. those "Saddam has an active WMD program" claims. The list could be expanded to include charges related to the unConstitutional domestic spying progra…
Certainly, Bush and Cheney invaded a country under false pretenses after lying to the public. They also set up a surveillance state with the help of major corporations. And, maybe not so much of a crime, they set us on the path of thinking that deficits don't matter in this country: so for their increases in spending they steadfastly lowered taxes. And the bank bailouts.... The unfortunate matter though is the damage…
Let's not forget Clapper who literally perjured himself in front of congress.
Also most of the creatures in the state department during the Bush years, including of course Bolton, and also others, Frum in particular.
And of course, let's not forget Hillary, who is silent as a rock right about now. Since you know, breaking the law is now en vogue to prosecute.
Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump
#348[flagged]
100%.
It's would have far better to just defeat Trump in 2024, and let him go slink into the shadows.
Now a red line has been crossed, the GOP is seems to be gearing up for civil war. They keep talking about the 6 Christians martyred and how no corporation or the "Biden Regime" has acknowledged them. Desantis has come out on Trump's side, even though days ago he said he wouldn't.
Escalation is occurring, and it's sheer arrogance to think this thing doesn't reek of pure politics.
I'm legitimately scared we have summoned something we cannot contain.
Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump
#349Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's kind of interesting because, according to a lot of other people (whether they are speaking factually or in an opinionated fashion), Trump has managed to avoid a lot of laws (inciting an insurrection, etc.). Why is this hush money thing the biggest law a Grand jury is able to stick on him? If he's supposedly guilty for so many other things, why is this all he's been indicted on the past few years? Genuinely askin…
I get the impression that there's no explanation required for how all the forces of the most powerful government in the world and its intelligence agencies, which are the largest, best financed, and since 9/11 least restrained in the world can't prove the liberal claims of a vast array of crimes that a slightly stupid wrestling valet game show host who largely lived off branding agreements with real estate developers…
You’re talking about the 76-year-old WWE hall-of-famer who posted upwards of 200 tweets a day despite famously eschewing technology for paper and pencil. There’s nothing fake about this political figure. Or any others, for that matter.
Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump
#350Judging comments from republicans on Twitter "this is a political prosecution, from a biased Soros backed prosecutor" Selective prosecution to try to sway an election was rejected once by voters after when Bill Clinton was impeached for his affair. So this will not directly boost Democrat's chances, might even make Donald a martyr. But would make sense if the strategy was to split the vote on the right. Trump being i…
Desantis just backed Trump, we are summoning something that is escalating out of control and cannot be contained.
Republican Twitter keeps talking about "6 Christians Marytred and ignored by Joe Biden and the Corporations" , "3 leftists state insurrections", and more.