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Ken Thompson's 75 year project: A century of popular music in a jukebox [video]

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Re: Ken Thompson's 75 year project: A century of popular music in a jukebox [video]

#341

Post by fsckboy »

hedora wrote: post #189
adamgordonbell wrote: post #77

I was at the talk, and it's strange this what people take from it. You should watch the whole thing and see what he built over years. I was a bit disappointed that most of the questions ignored his talk about a very cool jukebox he built and focused on OS drama. He built a jukebox with all hit songs he could find in it 1900-2000 and for prerecorded music, got a player piano and sheet music and midi and integrated the…

Better headline: “Unix Legend Ken Thompson Announces he is Switching From iTunes to a Raspberry PI, a Player Piano and Cabinets of old CD’s” Hmmm. I meant for that to be snarky, but it is a better headline.

“Unix Legend Ken Thompson, still out of step, taps his foot to the sterile sound of CDs just as they are now again being outsold by warm, pressed, analog vinyl”

(i have no beef with CDs, it's just a headline)

Re: Ken Thompson's 75 year project: A century of popular music in a jukebox [video]

#342

Post by fsckboy »

nullbyte808 wrote: post #284
hedora wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better headline: “Unix Legend Ken Thompson Announces he is Switching From iTunes to a Raspberry PI, a Player Piano and Cabinets of old CD’s” Hmmm. I meant for that to be snarky, but it is a better headline.

Apple music is only 10 bucks a month and lossless. But that is pretty cool.

Apple music is lossless from the moment lossless analog signals get imperfectly sampled and chopped into bitly approximations, yes. There must be an alias for the name of that process...

(i love DSP, calm down, but i also like lossless English)

Re: Ken Thompson's 75 year project: A century of popular music in a jukebox [video]

#343

Post by pjmlp »

wkat4242 wrote: post #148
kitsunesoba wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think permission systems are bound to wind up in all desktop operating systems, eventually. They’re already on Linux for those using Flatpak. Trusting random third party binaries with access to everything is increasingly too much of a gamble, even for more technical users. That said, I agree that the macOS implementation has issues. It’s tricky though, because if they make it as simple as confirm/deny dialogs, you’…

"Random third party binaries" are not something Linux users really use, generally. Most of it is open source and comes through the repository.

curl | sudo bash

Re: Ken Thompson's 75 year project: A century of popular music in a jukebox [video]

#344

Post by OmarAssadi »

snazz wrote: post #185
Maursault wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Homebrew still chugging along. For seven years longer and with 20K more ports than Homebrew, and without leaving a mess on your system or munging permissions, so is MacPorts.

Does Homebrew still have those issues on newer Macs with the /opt/homebrew prefix? I don’t use either at the moment but last time I looked at Homebrew it looked like they had changed the way it installed, at least on Apple silicon Macs.

I'm using Nix now on my macOS installs, so I might not be totally correct the current situation. But yeah, I believe most of those sorts of issues have gone away with the new prefix.

There's still some weird annoyances for me, though. For example, it's still intended for single-user mode only. The best solution I came up with was to create a separate user for Homebrew and then basically alias `brew` to `sudo -H -u homebrew brew`.

And generally, if you attempt to use a non-standard prefix, such as in your home directory, packages will have to be built from source. I understand why, but it sucks because this means when you need x86-only packages via Rosetta, you're stuck with the old `/usr/bin` prefix, unless you want to and can build from source.

Also, in general, maintaining multiple prefixes/architectures is annoying too. I wish the default command allowed me to just pass `--arch amd64/arm64` or something when installing packages

Re: Ken Thompson's 75 year project: A century of popular music in a jukebox [video]

#346

Post by dang »

adamgordonbell wrote: post #77

I was at the talk, and it's strange this what people take from it. You should watch the whole thing and see what he built over years. I was a bit disappointed that most of the questions ignored his talk about a very cool jukebox he built and focused on OS drama. He built a jukebox with all hit songs he could find in it 1900-2000 and for prerecorded music, got a player piano and sheet music and midi and integrated the…

Thanks for this! If anyone can suggest a good title for the talk as a whole, we'll change it above.

(By 'good' I mean accurate, neutral, and representative of the talk as a whole.)

((The submitted URL was https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaandEt_pKw&t=3473s, but our software swapped in the canonical URL, which has no timestamp.))

Edit: I've put a placeholder up there for the time being until we get a better suggestion. Submitted title was "Unix legend Ken Thompson announces he's switching From macOS To Raspbian Linux". I agree with the parent that this is trivializing (also cherrypicking and editorializing) and we should focus on the substance of the talk.

Re: Ken Thompson's 75 year project: A century of popular music in a jukebox [video]

#347

Post by smoldesu »

sbuk wrote: post #288
smoldesu wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'm not mistaken, Apple was the one that blacklisted Nvidia hardware, not the other way around. You can still download bog-standard UNIX drivers for Nvidia hardware, Apple just won't let you install them.

It’s understandable when you consider why , but that doesn’t fit you narrative.

It was understandable that Apple stopped shipping Nvidia hardware. Blacklisting Nvidia hardware and preventing the installation of Nvidia drivers is another thing, though, and goes too far in speaking on the user's behalf. If that's somehow more of a "narrative" than Apple's perspective on the matter, I don't know what to tell you.

Re: Ken Thompson's 75 year project: A century of popular music in a jukebox [video]

#348

Post by JonathonW »

smoldesu wrote: post #199
5e92cb50239222b wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jeez, if nvidia hardware is "open and extensible" by your standards, they must have been really lowered by Apple's shenanigans.

If I'm not mistaken, Apple was the one that blacklisted Nvidia hardware, not the other way around. You can still download bog-standard UNIX drivers for Nvidia hardware, Apple just won't let you install them.

What are “bog-standard UNIX drivers” and what other GPU vendors supply such a driver that can be installed on a Mac?

Re: Ken Thompson's 75 year project: A century of popular music in a jukebox [video]

#349

Post by kristopolous »

agent281 wrote: post #268
adamgordonbell wrote: post #77

I was at the talk, and it's strange this what people take from it. You should watch the whole thing and see what he built over years. I was a bit disappointed that most of the questions ignored his talk about a very cool jukebox he built and focused on OS drama. He built a jukebox with all hit songs he could find in it 1900-2000 and for prerecorded music, got a player piano and sheet music and midi and integrated the…

Agreed! I have to say I was disappointed by the question at 59:23. They seemed to expect a retrospective on Ken’s career or some grand philosophical statement on software or open source. To be honest, I was pretty surprised by the direction of the talk myself, but I ultimately enjoyed it. You see, Ken decided to talk about his 75 year project: his music collection. He talked about audio formats, collecting music from…

It's a technically oriented, open source, Linux conference and he's talking about basically his home stereo.

Well ok, I guess he can do whatever he wants. There's expectations from the context though.

That speech was the first time I understood how people can become too famous for their own good.

I saw him the day before (and I've got the photos to prove it) and he made a bunch of factual mistakes. Nobody cared enough to push back. I only did a little when he claimed raspberry pi prices have been stable and plentiful throughout the pandemic. But even I quickly gave up and I'm usually an asshole about things being right. (2019: 1gb pi4 was $35.00 and now it's $132.95 for the record. Buying 1000 cheap computers to sit on them 4 years and then just resell would have made you about $100,000)

He can basically say whatever and do whatever and people just politely murmur in approval because he's computer royalty. There's no real feedback loop or anything to keep him in check.

It'd be like if Beyonce held a concert and then instead of singing, talked about composting and gardening. I mean sure, whatever.

High status gives people a pass

Re: Ken Thompson's 75 year project: A century of popular music in a jukebox [video]

#350

Post by dagmx »

pxc wrote: post #322
kagakuninja wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to deal with refusal to install apps from "untrusted developers" constantly, I can't even believe you wrote that. For starters, the UI experience is terrible. You get a dialog telling you you can't install an app; close the dialog then you have to know to go to a certain Settings tab under Privacy & Security, and there will (hopefully) be some text that allows you to enable the app. This is a UI disaster. Mayb…

> I mean, are Steam and Firaxis not "trusted developers". Does 'app from a trusted developer' mean something other than 'app from the app store, or from someone you've specifically allowlisted'?

It just means the app is not signed+notarized.

They don’t necessarily need to be from the App Store, but they do need to be notarized.

If they’re not, the warning can be bypassed.

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