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Poor sleep drove me insane, and my long path to recovery

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341–350 of 370 posts

Re: Poor sleep drove me insane, and my long path to recovery

#341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dude, Alfaro charges prices that are vastly out of reach of anyone not made of money, and I'm at a point where making Dr appointments in the first place, nevermind coordinating travel, pushes me to my limits. I can probably get it done under public healthcare where I live, but I don't know if I can afford orthodontics, even if it's "only" a few thousand bucks over here.

Just wanted to share a cheap suggestion that has helped me with poor breathing due to narrow breathing passages. This was temporary due to bad respiratory virus, but was effective. Nyquil and breath right strips. Probably using NyQuil every night is not a good idea, but could perhaps use on occasion, or some other nasal dilator drug such as asthma medications/ steroids. But the breath right strip can be used all the…

Already doing all of these, I've even reverse engineered a custom, a bit more effective algorithm into my PAP :-P But thank you for the suggestions.

Re: Poor sleep drove me insane, and my long path to recovery

#342
post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a person who went from high functioning to struggling. I'm a person who went from no longer able to attend high school to ten years of being trapped at home by progressively debilitating fatigue. I've tried hundreds of things over the years, but it's like playing whack-a-mole or trying to slay the mythical hydra. For every improvement I manage, I fail two. No matter what I do, it isn't enough. I can barely ta…

Could there be an untreated underlying issue? Seems worth doing a thorough checkup to eliminate Lyme, Wilson's, Sjogren, Lupus, neurological issues like FTD, diabetes, mental illness, eg major depression, or even hormones (low t), thyroid, iron levels, etc. Maybe there is something like modafinil that can give you a boost (with a prescription of course).

There definitely is. Partially managed sleep disordered breathing is one, whatever's up with my gut is two, but healthcare where I live sucks. I wait for months just to be treated dismissively and told I need a shrink for daring to think there's something physiologically wrong with me.

Re: Poor sleep drove me insane, and my long path to recovery

#343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a person who went from high functioning to struggling. I'm a person who went from no longer able to attend high school to ten years of being trapped at home by progressively debilitating fatigue. I've tried hundreds of things over the years, but it's like playing whack-a-mole or trying to slay the mythical hydra. For every improvement I manage, I fail two. No matter what I do, it isn't enough. I can barely ta…

I'm pretty sure you've already looked into this but I couldn't scroll past without dropping in my thoughts; feel free to ignore them. I'm dealing with similar problems as a post-covid sequelae, in my early 20s with debilitating problems and also having to get to the root cause myself as doctors are clueless. Have you had your gut microbiome tested (with zonulin + IgA + parasites, fungi and viruses)? If so, feel free…

I do want one actually, yeah. Much of my decline started after heavy antibiotics a few years back, and I've experienced temporary relief of some symptoms from antibiotics last year, but then they came back with a vengeance.

I'll be seeing a gasteologist who has published papers on FMT (most here haven't even heard of it), and if that fails, I'd definitely like to DIY.

Re: Poor sleep drove me insane, and my long path to recovery

#344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes me sad too, but it just is what it is. I've had individual days of the sun shining through the clouds, but in the end, the trajectory of my life is always downwards. It doesn't matter what I tried. I don't have enough executive function to stick to it. For every win, I fail two other things. It's a thankless, Sisyphean struggle just to survive from one day to the next. I wish I could catch a break, but my ot…

I'm no expert so don't take too much stock in this suggestion, but I figured I'd speak up on the off chance it helps you. I experienced similar symptoms with eating anything causing extreme day long fatigue. This was a problem for me for over a several month period. It started as diarrhea when eating my typical diet of seemingly healthy foods. Then it progressed to eating very little and getting exhaustion from eatin…

So far I've been met with specialists blaming it all on stress, despite the fact that I'm a remarkably calm person outside the flares(they make me feel abysmal). I'm not able to single out any specific triggers, and at my current level of debilitation I've been unable to make major changes in my diet.

I'll be seeing a hopefully good gastro soon, and if all else fails I'd like to try DIY FMT, but it's all such a horrifying struggle against multiple sources of severe disability with no support.

Re: Poor sleep drove me insane, and my long path to recovery

#345
post #18

I had some issues like this but only manifested when I was on work trips which lasted weeks to months. I can tough out several days of sleeping in a hotel but the longer the stay the more I react to whatever is common to hotel rooms and the problems breathing / and sleep apnea gradually push me around the bend. Returning home cures me after a recovery period.

Maybe the air-conditioning is drying out your sinus?

Very likely!

Re: Poor sleep drove me insane, and my long path to recovery

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't edit the initial comment anymore, but another big thing for me was having an eye mask that was comfortable enough to sleep in. The MZOO brand on Amazon has been perfect for me: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KC5DWCC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b...

Same. For me earplugs, and a contoured eye mask (mine looks like a bra), and sleeping alone are huge.

Bags under the eyes are the breasts of the insomniac's face

Re: Poor sleep drove me insane, and my long path to recovery

#347

This is quite raw and I'm actually somewhat afraid to share this. But I think sleep apnea is criminally under-discussed and underdiagnosed. It can f your life up sideways and can take years to diagnose. So sharing my story and hope I can advocate for it. If you have sleep apnea, no amount of sleep gadgets, good habits, exercise, will help you. You must fix the root cause

Fellow UARS survivor here. Some notes:

* My symptoms at the nadir were (all resolved with self-administered xPAP): chronic fatigue; chronic pain (skeletal muscles were all like bricks); insomnia throughout the night every night; tinnitus; reflux; chronic anxiety; all sorts of cognitive problems with memory, concentration and executive function.

* You describe CPAP rejection as something specific to UARS. It really is not, many people with "plain OSA" reject CPAP. For some people SDB causes intense anxiety, others get a bit numb. I guess CPAP is doable for the numb population. Obviously having resistance imposed on your breathing while being in Fight or Flight mode constantly is a big no-no. I experienced this myself, CPAP gave me back to back anxiety attacks. Describe this to doctors, and they will gaslight you. Their talk is cheap, they don't have to sleep like that. Fortunately my first device was a BiPAP (by total coincidence) and turning the BiPAP mode on was like turning a key and opening a door. I went to sleep instantly and we became best friends :) Barry Krakow MD is a rare exception. He says the following in his article [0]

> From our perspective, reliance on CPAP in a sizeable proportion of OSA/UARS patients violates the dictum, primum non nocere. Accordingly, 15 years ago we ceased use of CPAP and switched all patients to bilevel modes.

* Joseph Borelli MD, an adult UARS survivor describes his experiences in a video from the American Sleep Apnea Association. [1]

* In my experience nasal congestion can also be caused by the SDB. The Bilevel breathing assistance compensated for my nasal resistance at the beginning, and after a while my nose just opened up. I haven't had any trouble with it since, also while performing strenuous activity and sports. I never had anything done to my nose, let alone surgery.

* It's very hard to know when you are fully treated, with any intervention if there is no hard data. I started with BiPAP, and for 3 years I was adjusting my pressure every 3-4 months and gained improvement. But I was never sure that I had reached the ceiling. I did have some regular "worse days" that could be blamed on residual breathing issues. The DSX900 AutoSV records every individual breath on its SD card, so I can verify that it is achieving total flow normalization. [3]

* Around october 2020 I had some discussions, giving input to the author of this article [2] and I became sure that I had to try ASV at some point to try and achieve complete "flow normalization" which Barry Krakow MD describes in a webinar [3]. Finally I in january 2021 I had the opportunity to try a DSX900 AutoSV and copy my Bilevel settings onto it with some headroom for the ASV algorithm to work. It did turn out that I had a lot to gain cognitively, my concentration, memory and executive function became much better, particularly reading and studying "hard" text became much easier and "transparent," i.e. no more clinging to the lines of text. So this is a warning, while any relief from the most dire symptoms is good, I consider years lived with inadequate treatment to be years wasted in a sense. Of couse the 15 years I went completely untreated as a young teen going through school and university as a tired, neurotic wreck I will never get back.

* Mouth taping probably works because it keeps the lower jaw stabilized. It tends to drop and then fall back. A soft cervical collar would probably also work. My current mask (F30i) hooks under my lower lip and that probably also helps.

* I use an ultrafine allergy filter in my machine and it still does a lot of work for me, so allergies cannot be considered the main cause. In my case it's facial anatomy such as retrognathia, large tongue, Mallampati class IV.

* I was gaslighted by doctors for 3 years. I was finally diagnosed with UARS (3rd PSG with Pes this time) in october 2020 but no treatment was offered as "there was no protocol." I had to do everything myself.

* Toughing it out isn't sustainable, my final crash was in 2017.

[0] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5...

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbdMY_qd7-s

[2] https://web.archive.org/web/20211006015015/https://sleepbrea...

[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=1321&v=Syv7YcHbTCI

Re: Poor sleep drove me insane, and my long path to recovery

#348
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I bet close to all young skinny people with sleep apnea must remain undiagnosed. My generalist doc basically said "if you really insist we can do a polysomnography, but I'm pretty sure you don't have it, you're young, skinny and sporty. There isn't really much that helps that you can do about it anyway". I did insist and it turned out that I do have it. The changes in life I experienced are similar to yo…

When I was in my early 20s, I weighed under 60kg (which put me at a BMI of 19ish). I was tired all the time. I went through the usual gauntlet of tests, including a sleep study. The doctors couldn't find any explanation, and after months of this I sort of got used to it. The months turned into years, and in my mid 30s, my upstairs neighbour complained about my loud snoring. Back to tests, another sleep study. Diagnos…

AHI really doesn't mean anything besides the trivial: the density of apneas and hypopneas (relative to the applied definition of both) https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jsr.13066

Re: Poor sleep drove me insane, and my long path to recovery

#349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My sleep study cost roughly $2300 with insurance (US). I purchased my own machine and supplies because going through insurance requires you to rent the machine. It phones home and if you don’t use it every night it impacts your coverage! No thanks. You need a script to purchase the machine too which you need a sleep study to get. Then billed periodically for supplies. Also, the initial settings they configured for th…

I was quoted 3k for a psg by my sleep specialist. I went and got one from axg sleep diagnostics out in Sacramento, for around 600

That's Jason Sazama a.k.a. TheLankyLefty27. He's good, he knows about UARS and flow limitation. His experience with bilevel/ASV modalities is very limited though.

Re: Poor sleep drove me insane, and my long path to recovery

#350
post #230

Very useful read. My friend, an osteopath, says neck issues also can create breathing obstructions, and it makes a good deal of people wake up in the middle of the night and stay awake, even though they don't even think it's a problem. Symptom to watch for: you wake up and your nose is stuffy, can't breathe through it, but there's no snot. And in 5-15 minutes it gets clear. If you have it, it means lymph flow out of…

Does this have a name, I wake up to sometimes with a clogged nose, can't breathe until it drains out. I started sleeping with more pillows to keep my head higher and it stopped, but I think it's a weird angle and makes my throat collapse.

> I started sleeping with more pillows to keep my head higher and it stopped, but I think it's a weird angle

Be careful with those pillows!

A while ago I came across a YouTube video by two orthopedists who were arguing very convincingly that for neck & overall posture it's best to sleep without any pillows at all. I've been doing it for > 2 years now and, from what my body tells me, they're absolutely right. Now I can't believe I ever slept with a pillow.

The reasons they gave for why pillows are bad are (I'm paraphrasing here):

- As far as is possible, sleep should be used to counter the posture(s) one typically assumes during the day, not to reinforce them. (Sleeping for 8 hours basically means 8 hours of reinforcing a certain posture, whether good or bad, so better use it for one that benefits you.)

- Pillows put the neck in a forward position, like when you're sitting at your desk, and therefore cause or exacerbate a neck hump.

- They allow sleeping on the side, in a baby pose (i.e. with your legs tucked up) which, again, mimics the typical posture when sitting.

- Pillows prevent sleeping on your stomach, a position which helps stretch the body (especially chest, neck, hip flexors).

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