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IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

reneweuropegroup.eu

341–350 of 500 posts

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#341
post #35
post #28

There is always bashing if there is something about the EU and its national projects, not always deserved. However sometimes I wished HN showed more of local projects. For example: has there been a post about the European AI? https://www.aleph-alpha.com/

Maybe because it's always in response to, and generally a failed copy costing billions to Europeans because of bureaucrats?

US has no bureaucrats? All the EU member states, no bureaucrats? How many projects in member states cost the tax payer billions? Btw the EU budget is tiny in comparison.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#342
post #166
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, don't know why they posted Renew's page instead of the official press release but here they are: https://defence-industry-space.ec.europa.eu/adoption-europea... https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/STATEM...

> IRIS² will be a constellation at the cutting edge of technology, to give Europe a lead, for example in quantum encryption. It will therefore be a vector of innovation. Quantum encryption?? Can anybody explain how this is related to satellites?

Lots of high-entropy phenomena in space.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think these things would happen as a result of a process of escalations, not as a result of rational decisions. Perhaps one side temporarily blinds a spy satellite with a laser[1], to prevent it from observing something sensitive. Then the other side reacts by blinding another satellite in the same way, but oops, the laser was a bit too powerful and it does permanent damage to the sensors. Then a single satellite i…

So the solution is to either do nothing, or do something that the russians will have even less trouble destroying?

The solution, I think, would be to have redundant terrestrial communication links. A spiderweb of links between nodes, with routing around damage. And fallbacks to slower microwave or radio links when fiber gets cut. And developing plans to make due with very low bandwidth (i.e. text based protocols) during a crisis.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know where you live, but in most of Europe, rural areas have internet too. It doesn't "fail every time".

There aren't really any rural areas in Europe, by American standards.

I think you should review the definition of "rural" then.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#345
post #329

With the war, Ukraine needed satellite telecommunications, but the EU didn’t have something to offer. Ukraine should not have to rely on the whims of Elon Musk to defend their people. What a weird reason to undertake such a project. Ukraine isn’t an EU member.

I guess this is the near term reason, but the main motive for the EU to set up their own satellite positioning system Gallileo was because GPS is under the whims of US military and may not be available to even US allies under emergency circumstances. They want critical infrastructure without relying on an external entity be it the US military or Elon Musk.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The EU has a lot to catch up in many countries" The trouble is that this has been known since at least the late 1990s, discussed quite often, plans made, and yet the gap hasn't grown appreciably smaller. It has arguably widened . 15 years ago, you could choose from a plentitude of European feature phones. Now the vast majority of our own mobile phone market is dominated by US or East Asian products.

There is, unless I miss someone, only one US ohone player left, Apple. Everything else is Asian.

Google is American!

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's honestly got to the point where I barely open comments related to EU projects any more. While most of the time there's somewhat nuanced discussions in comments, once the EU gets mentioned for some reason most of the comments basically boil down to "EU bad, US better", and "Big government bad", completely ignoring the actual contents of what the post it about.

A crowd that is ideological resistant to reality in quite a entertaining fashion. Just remember the Boing 737 Max, which was never explored under this focus. Why does European airbus thrive, while us aircraft industry declined? Both are heavily state subsidized, so it is not that. There is something dysfunctional in us business culture, that extracts value first, and then runs without creating something for the value…

Way to cherrypick - A380 wasn't exactly a masterpiece in economics. Should we discuss Airbus/Araine?

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a third party (New Zealander), I don't think that's correct. I think the US criticism of EU is much more often baseless compared to the reverse situation (as evidenced by the number of issues which are picked up by the residents of non aligned countries).

Also as a New Zealander - I think the opposite - EU criticism of the US really misses many points about the competitiveness of their society and burden they bear protecting the rest of the world's democracies. I think it is really about people's personal politics - Kiwis generally are much more aligned (left) with EU socialism/interventionism and hence relate more and see US criticism as baseless. It's all a matter o…

"burden they bear protecting the rest of the world's democracies"

As an Australian, that's a pretty glowing interpretation of the US intervening where they aren't wanted or needed

Was the US protecting 'democracy' when they annexed Hawaii, or how they've treated Cuba? Or Vietnam or South America or Iraq or any litany of other countries

Hell. They helped depose Gough Whitlam because he dared threaten to nationalize our mines ala Norway, not to mention that worthless spying ring that is Pine Gap

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#349
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's your source for good cost of launching satellite communication networks? - falcon 9 - $2700/kg - falcon heavy - $1400/kg - ariane 5 - $9000/kg > If the current one works - why would they? This is just low quality flame bait. If any of the before-mentioned (US) companies succeed commercially long-term, they will transform world-wide internet access especially in less developed countries. For clarification: as…

Last time I checked launch costs, and tjose are incredibly hard to come by, SpaceX prices were the LEO-launch equivalent of Ryan Air's 20 Euro tickets. So hard to compare. Also, for a bunch of launches, Ariane-5 was already a couple of years ago competitive with SpaceX launches. And the only real customer so far for cheap, low orbit launches using re-usable rockets is SpaceX itself for Starlink.

At the very, very lowest prices that Ariane 5 ever offered, they were close to SpaceX in only one specific very hard to find setup. They needed 2 Geo sats that wanted to launch at the same time and likely only the cheaper of those two actually had a price comparable to SpaceX.

Ariane was lucky that space launches were contracted so many years in advanced in the past. They had many years of contracts already lined when SpaceX was only just scaling and had huge backlogs.

Even by 2014 it was totally clearly to literally everybody in space, that Ariane 5 had to go. It had no future, even with all possible help, ESA and national launches and insentient launches from EU firms it cost would wildly spiral out of control.

That said, Ariane 6 is only a slight incremental improvement (in reality its mostly upgrades that were already planned for Ariane 5 anyway). It was designed to compete with SpaceX as it was in 2014.

Hence why European space people are already planning and pushing for more money to build a next generation rocket. Despite Ariane 6 being a new rocket then Falcon 9, its already outdated.

However Europe (and everybody else) was incredibly lucky that Amazon decided to compete with Starlink and to do so they had to basically buy every single available heavy lift rocket launch for the next half decade. Lucky for them nobody everybody outside of SpaceX sucks, so nobody sucks. Ariane 6 can compete with ULA even when they can't compete with SpaceX.

> And the only real customer so far for cheap, low orbit launches using re-usable rockets is SpaceX itself for Starlink.

Its kind of funny when people claim things that are so easy to verify to be false:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Falcon_9_and_Falcon_He...

SpaceX has already flown 2 commercial flights to low orbit this just year and its February. And their re-usability is not just for low orbit, they reuse the rockets if the go to GEO as well.

Ariane 5 flight rate was never more then 7 a year, SpaceX is planning more then 10 purely commercial LEO, MEO and SSO missions just in the next few months.

- Transporter-6

- OneWeb Flight #16

- OneWeb #17

- O3b mPOWER

- WorldView Legion 1 & 2

- O3b mPOWER 5 & 6

- Transporter-7

- SARah 2 & 3

- Ax-2

I'm sick of doing this, you get my point. Ax-2 is planned for May. You can continue down the list for the rest of the year.

So your statement is almost hilariously wrong, and totally wrong.

The problem is just that SpaceX is launching so often and so many Starlinks that people get confused by it in comparison to what was normal the last 20 years.

Its seems you have formed your opinion based on a bunch of Arianespace propaganda. The have been focused on spreading a a bunch of false narrative the last 5-10 years.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are many concerns about giving a centralized authority more power > Also, since the EU is a vassal of Pax Americana So the problem is giving a centralized authority (EU) more power. At the same time the EU is a vassal of the US (Pax America, which is a fairly ridiculous notion in and of itself). I can only conclude from the horrible word salad you gave me that individual member states without the EU would als…

> EU is a vassal of the US (Pax America, which is a fairly ridiculous notion in and of itself). You don't believe me? Perhaps Pax Americana needs to blow up another one of Europe's oil pipelines to remind you... I wonder how long the sycophantic politicians can keep up the act before the freezing & unemployed citizens notice. Here's a word of advice though, don't give the Nazis too many weapons. It may end up in a ba…

> Perhaps Pax Americana needs to blow up another one of Europe's oil pipelines

Does "pax" in Freedom Latin mean the same thing that it does in traditional Latin?

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