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Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

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Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#341

Post by catiopatio »

dragonwriter wrote: post #73
catiopatio wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm unaware of which right would fall under the category "Can't have DEI statements." The first amendment, as originally noted. This is most relevant at public universities, which effectively are the government.

> The first amendment Diversity statements are not viewpoint statements, they are statements of achievements and concrete plans related to organizational goals. The first amendment does not prohibit public employers from asking for, and basing employment decisions, on such statements.

DEI statements are absolutely viewpoint statements, and DEI statements are graded according to their adherence to a specific political ideology (and frankly, it’s closer to a religious ideology than a political one).

If a public school’s “organization goals” have extended into the realm of advancing DEI political ideology, then the organization is operating outside its remit.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#342

Post by goatlover »

wonderwonder wrote: post #333
goatlover wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you're a minority group like Asians, Hispanics or African immigrants, you get called terms like white-adjacent or internalizing racism when upholding values of hard work and discipline to get ahead, because those are somehow values of a "white supremacist" society.

I'm still recovering from the Smithsonian's presentation on whiteness (which I assume you are referencing) that listed white negative traits as things like: Planning for the future Delayed Gratification Self Reliance Adherence to the nuclear family Objective, Rational thinking Hard work being the key to success

Yes, that was one of the examples I had in mind. Yet you see folks in her dismiss any arguments against DEI as boogeyman of right-wing pundits.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#343

Post by goatlover »

ModernMech wrote: post #336
goatlover wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't that just be "ability to work with people" full stop, regardless of their background? If society is very, very diverse, then surely we all have to work, live and grow up with different people anyway.

Sure that’s fine a fine sentiment to hold. But it’s also anodyne and unspecific. It’s certainly not the kind of thing that’s going to differentiate you in a competitive job application process. Because the job in fact is to teach a diverse classroom. So if all you have to say are banal platitudes in your DEI statement, you will be passed over. Not because your position is wrong, it’s not. But because others are able…

So for example if you're a math teacher, and the job is to teach a diverse classroom, what the hell does that mean?

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#344

Post by astrange »

tablespoon wrote: post #340
astrange wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, someone who isn't running for president.

>> So who will do something about it? > Well, someone who isn't running for president. Huh? The only person who will do something about it is someone who refuses to seek the power to do something about it?

What do you think US presidents do? It's not that.

(It's mainly foreign policy.)

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#345

Post by rayiner »

goatlover wrote: post #320
hotpotamus wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a really hard time trying to sort through the victim olympics of this statement to determine who wins the gold here. White is a slippery definition though - on that much I suppose I can agree. Ricky Ricardo would never have been allowed to be shown married to a white woman on TV back when his show was airing if Cubans weren't considered white too. Jews sort of come and go from being white as well, but I don't…

Apparently there is ongoing debate within the US census as to whether Hispanic should be treated as an ethnic category. Some Hispanics have objected to being placed in the white racial category as opposed to just being called Hispanic. I'm thinking at some point in the future we'll realize that racial categories don't make much sense.

“Hispanic” isn’t an ethnic category. There are Hispanics of mostly European descent, Hispanics of mainly African descent, etc. It’s a clumsy umbrella term, but is vaguely workable insofar as it gestures in the general direction of a set of nationalities with related cultures.

“Asian” is even worse since it refers to a group of people who share neither ethnicity nor culture. It’s a label that is workable only because these unrelated groups share some common experiences in America due to immigration patterns. Even there, though, Indian immigrants and Vietnamese refugees have little in common.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#346

Post by dragonwriter »

catiopatio wrote: post #341
dragonwriter wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The first amendment Diversity statements are not viewpoint statements, they are statements of achievements and concrete plans related to organizational goals. The first amendment does not prohibit public employers from asking for, and basing employment decisions, on such statements.

DEI statements are absolutely viewpoint statements, and DEI statements are graded according to their adherence to a specific political ideology (and frankly, it’s closer to a religious ideology than a political one). If a public school’s “organization goals” have extended into the realm of advancing DEI political ideology, then the organization is operating outside its remit.

> DEI statements are absolutely viewpoint statements,

No, they aren’t. They are “how have/would/will you achieve specific goals” statements. Some actual prompts (with institution names removed as a distraction here, if included) [0]:

“Applicants should submit a statement explaining how their teaching at the College will contribute to a culture of inclusion and campus diversity.”

“A description of how the applicant would contribute to the development of a diverse and inclusive learning community at through her/his teaching, research, and/or service.”

“[…] discuss how the candidate would help achieve ’s goal to attract and graduate more women, Hispanic, and students from other underrepresented groups.”

“Qualified candidates should submit […] a diversity statement (describing how you incorporate diversity into your teaching, research, and/or service)”

“Pursuant to the college’s vision for cultivating a diverse and inclusive community, the search committee will ask all applicants to address how their past and/or potential contributions might serve to advance ’s commitment to teaching and mentoring young people from a variety of personal experiences, values, and worldviews that arise from differences of culture and circumstance.”

> If a public school’s “organization goals” have extended into the realm of advancing DEI political ideology,

Diversity is well-established (in cases both supporting and striking down particular diversity policies) as a compelling government interest under; promotion of diversity is not outside the remit of public universities, and, therefore, neither is asking prospective employees both their track record on advancing, and their plans going forward to advance, that interest in their work.

[0] examples from: https://cft.vanderbilt.edu/guides-sub-pages/developing-and-w...

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#347

Post by tablespoon »

astrange wrote: post #344
tablespoon wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> So who will do something about it? > Well, someone who isn't running for president. Huh? The only person who will do something about it is someone who refuses to seek the power to do something about it?

What do you think US presidents do? It's not that. (It's mainly foreign policy.)

> What do you think US presidents do? It's not that.

A whole heck of a lot, actually.

> (It's mainly foreign policy.)

Don't be ridiculous. That's just an area where there are fewer checks.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#348

Post by Dig1t »

wonderwonder wrote: post #30

This is the sort of thing that confounds me. It proports to be anti racist but it's the opposite, it treats minorities as a special lesser class that require protection from everyone else. It's the civil rights movement in reverse. It's already started bleeding into the workspace with mandatory training and verbiage that essentially says anything you do in your interactions with a minority if they accuse you of anyth…

There's only one race that we're allowed to openly wish for genocide for:

Wired Magazine: "A Glimpse of a Future Without White People"

https://www.wired.com/story/mohsin-hamid-the-last-white-man

It's the same one we're supposed to discriminate against in the workplace.

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#349

Post by Spllatty »

Manuel_D wrote: post #96
SpeedilyDamage wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the civil rights movement in reverse. Is it? Here's what MLK has written: > “Whenever the issue of compensatory treatment for the Negro is raised, some of our friends recoil in horror. The Negro should be granted equality, they agree; but he should ask nothing more. On the surface, this appears reasonable, but it is not realistic.” > “A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of…

One crucial detail to note with the research showing diversity improves company performance: Asians were categorized as diverse in these studies. But in all the DEI initiatives I've seen, Asians were either non-diverse and in some they were "negative diversity" and treated even worse than whites. So there's a mismatched between the definitions of diversity used in research and used in DEI discrimination.

[flagged]

Re: Mandatory DEI statements are becoming the norm in academic hiring

#350

Post by bArray »

goatlover wrote: post #321
bArray wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the sort of thing that confounds me. It proports to be anti racist but it's the opposite, it treats minorities as a special lesser class that require protection from everyone else. It's the civil rights movement in reverse. It's worse, you tell somebody they are a victim enough, and they begin to believe it, they even play the role of a victim. You are now starting to see a generation of young minorities th…

And if you're a minority group like Asians, Hispanics or African immigrants, you get called terms like white-adjacent or internalizing racism when upholding values of hard work and discipline to get ahead, because those are somehow values of a "white supremacist" society.

> racism when upholding values of hard work and discipline to get ahead

I think these activists are to racism what SlimFast/WeightWatchers is to dieting. They have no interest in actually solving the problem, they instead would much rather you perpetually be a victim.

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