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Chat GPT is the birth of the real Web 3.0, and it's not going to be fun

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Re: Chat GPT is the birth of the real Web 3.0, and it's not going to be fun

#341

Post by pharmakom »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #328
zackmorris wrote: post #176

I agree with the headline and am glad that someone finally said it. Web 1.0 was great: designed by academics, it popularized idempotence, declarative programming, scalability and ushered in the Long Now so every year since has basically been 1995 repeated. Web 2.0 never happened: it ended up being a trap that swallowed the best minds of a generation to web (ad) agencies with countless millions of hours lost fighting…

Please tell me this is from chatGPT as a joke and you didn't write up a giant post about 'the singularity', 'ubi', future trillionaires, millennial politics and future environmental collapse on your own.

I had fun with it, nice bit of spec-fi

Re: Chat GPT is the birth of the real Web 3.0, and it's not going to be fun

#343

Post by sorry_outta_gas »

qup wrote: post #318
sorry_outta_gas wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, bro. Quality is subjective, so it's up to the owner of the website to determine the quality of their own content based on their own standards and goals.

Disagree, the search engine needs to make the judgement on the quality. As a user doing the search, I can't trust the opinions of the website owners, but I have to trust someone. I want to trust the search provider, particularly because I can easily switch if I choose.

yeah search engines better judge the content right. they better use the right signals, like metadata and user engagement, to give users what they want.

and website owners better do their part too, by tagging their content correctly and putting out only the highest quality material.

Re: Chat GPT is the birth of the real Web 3.0, and it's not going to be fun

#344

Post by dmonitor »

savingsPossible wrote: post #293
dmonitor wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just look at reddit to see how quickly self curation devolves into complete and utter garbage

I did and I don't see it. There are many useful subreddits

and they’re all the small obscure ones. the large ones are garbage.

Re: Chat GPT is the birth of the real Web 3.0, and it's not going to be fun

#345

Post by alfalfasprout »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #264
alfalfasprout wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The model needs known "good" feedback to improve. The problem is that the quality of its training data declines with the more output produced. It's rather inevitable that we'll be drowning in AI generated garbage before long. A lot of people are confusing LLMs with true intelligence.

That’s why I think knowledge needs to be better structured than blobs of text scattered everywhere. An AI can be more than an LLM, Wolfram posted recently about that. You can use the LLM to convert a question into a semantic query and a semantic validator and check and amend and provide a semantic knowledge graph explaining an answer and the LLM can convert it back to meat language. I think people confuse LLM with tr…

Oh definitely. There's bound to be improvements especially when you glue an LLM to a semantic engine, etc.

The issue is again, fundamentally, one of data. Without authenticating what's machine generated and what's "trusted" proliferation of AI generated content is bound to reduce data quality. This is a side effect of these models being trained to fool discriminators.

Ultimately now I think there is going to be a more serious look around the ethics of using these models and putting guard rails around what exactly is permissible. I suspect the US will remain a wild west for some time but the EU will be a test-bed.

Ultimately, I'm fairly excited about the applications of all this.

Re: Chat GPT is the birth of the real Web 3.0, and it's not going to be fun

#346

Post by twelve40 »

px43 wrote: post #58

Imagine a world where the only content you see is from publishers that you trust, and that your friends trust, and their friends, to maybe 4 or 5 hops or so, and the feed was weighted by how much they are trusted by your particular social graph. If you start seeing spammy content, you downvote it, and your trust level from that part of your social graph drops, and they are less likely to be able to publish things tha…

not much privacy then, eh? somebody will be able to trace that key to you or other things you've signed at least

PS I'm not too obsessed with privacy and I'm ok with assuming all my FB things including DMs can be made public/leaked anytime, but there is a bunch of stuff I browse and value that I will never share with anybody.

Re: Chat GPT is the birth of the real Web 3.0, and it's not going to be fun

#347

Post by munificent »

ElevenLathe wrote: post #340
munificent wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> without a single mention of what that problem looks like today (hint: it was already a huge problem before ChatGPT). I see this counter-argument all the time and it makes no sense to me. Yes, the web is already filled with SEO trash. How is that an argument that ChatGPT won't be bad? It's a force multiplier for garbage. The pre-existence of garbage does not at all invalidate the observation that producing more garb…

On the other hand, the system for finding non-garbage content is the same: read publications and writers that you (and other real people you know) already like. If there are 10 good websites and 100 garbage ones, you probably find out about 2 or 3 of the good ones by word of mouth. If there are 10 good websites and 10^32 garbage ones, you will still be able to read those 2-3 good ones.

The system for finding a needle in a sprinkling of hay is the same as finding a needle in a mountain-sized haystack but I would sure as hell prefer to be given the former task over the latter.

Re: Chat GPT is the birth of the real Web 3.0, and it's not going to be fun

#348

Post by munificent »

qup wrote: post #315
munificent wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> without a single mention of what that problem looks like today (hint: it was already a huge problem before ChatGPT). I see this counter-argument all the time and it makes no sense to me. Yes, the web is already filled with SEO trash. How is that an argument that ChatGPT won't be bad? It's a force multiplier for garbage. The pre-existence of garbage does not at all invalidate the observation that producing more garb…

Because you already only view like 0.0001% of the web's content. Garbage is already filtered by algos. Those algos just have to keep up with chatGPT the same way they've already been keeping up with spam, the 95% of the web that is a dumpster fire, etc. Potentially it doesn't really become more difficult.

> Those algos just have to keep up with chatGPT the same way they've already been keeping up with spam, the 95% of the web that is a dumpster fire, etc.

That "just" is an arms race so fantastically difficult that the current leading business doing it has a market cap of $1.4 trillion.

Those algos are, to date, some of the world's most sophisticated uses of AI.

This is like observing that the howitzer was just invented and saying, "Don't worry, we've got chainmail armor."

Re: Chat GPT is the birth of the real Web 3.0, and it's not going to be fun

#349

Post by dheera »

soiler wrote: post #311
zaroth wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a fun example; First hit in DDG for that query is a trash site but at least the data is there… https://www.currentresults.com/Yearly-Weather/USA/MA/Boston/... Versus trying to pull the data from NOAA; https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cdo-web/search The way that the first site works the keywords into the intro text repeatedly to juice their rank is almost impressive. Can the search engines really not see that the pag…

I mean, what exactly makes the first page garbage? I'm not disagreeing, but "is this site garbage" is not a question that a search engine can ask.

> "is this site garbage"

Why not? If it has headers that say it was made with FrontPage 2003 and has five thousand AdSense boxes, uses old world fonts like Arial instead of HelveticaNeue Light, uses 16-bit VGA colors like #0000ff, or has bgsound and blink tags, it should perhaps be downranked.

Re: Chat GPT is the birth of the real Web 3.0, and it's not going to be fun

#350

Post by skybrian »

munificent wrote: post #234
skybrian wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trust is not transitive. My friends reshare all sort of crazy memes, and their friends are even worse. Just because you know someone doesn't mean they're good at reading the news or understanding what's going on in the world.

I think trust is somewhat transitive, but it's not domain independent. I have friends whose movie recommendations I trust but whose restaurant recommendations I don't, and vice versa. I have friend that I trust to be witty but not wise and others the opposite. A system that tried to model trust would probably need to support tagging people with what kinds of things you trust them in.

On second thought, I'm not even sure what "transitive" means here. It seems like it should mean that if you trust your friend's movie recommendations then you trust your friend's friends' movie recommendations? Or maybe something like:

   trustsMovieRecs(A, B) and trustsMovieRecs(B, C) => trustsMovieRecs(A, C).
Their movie recommendations are likely some function that takes their friends' movie recommendations as input (along with watching them), but that's more like an indirect dependency than a transitive closure.
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