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Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

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Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#341

Post by version_five »

agentwiggles wrote: post #335
wyre wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if there is a correlation between an accessibility of cannabis and alcohol-related incidents. Cannabis is much safer than alcohol. Would my friends and I have drank as much as we did when I was younger if cannabis was cheap and accessible? Methadone is accessible for people dealing with opioid addiction, but that doesn’t provide a high so it doesn’t actually solve the problem of addicts choosing to continue…

Prescription of some kind, maybe in a similar but less permissive vein as medical marijuana, seems right to me too. I'm pretty much in favor of letting people decide what goes into their bodies but I can't see a lot of benefits to freely available fentanyl. But I would definitely like to see an approach that decriminalizes addiction. It's a really tough nut to crack though. Not sure what the best approach is. One of…

> freely available fentanyl

I posted up-thread and want to clarify. Fentanyl and other strong synthetic opiates are mostly the product of heroin or opium being illegal. Decriminalized heroin would mean that opiate addicts would not have to resort to sketchy drugs to get high.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#342

Post by philwelch »

dirtyid wrote: post #312
philwelch wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A likely explanation is that China is using the cartels to wage a 21st century opium war. (The obvious link to China being that China produces most of the chemical precursors to fentanyl, and until recently produced most of the fentanyl itself.) The average American drug user isn’t the customer; he, or rather his eventual death or disability, is the product.

More parsimonious explanation is that the PRC bureaucracy isn't going to waste resources cracking down on precursor producers for legal medicine ingredients when it doesn't cause domestic issues, or issues in the majority of countries, including other eight nation alliance members that have exploited China far more than the US. Like why wage 21st century opium war against only 1/8 of historic grudges. The primary inc…

Fentanyl deaths are rising in many Western countries, not just the US. Plus, the US is the primary geopolitical rival to China and hence the most relevant target. It's not worth the effort for China to exact revenge against, for instance, Austria and/or Hungary because neither of those countries are relevant to China now.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#343

Post by docandrew »

exabrial wrote: post #96
calibas wrote: post #53

Oh boy, the pharmaceutical companies can sell a new product to help solve the mess that one of their previous products created. An opioid that's more potent, more addictive, and more deadly than heroin should never have gone to market in the first place. It speaks of enormous corruption and a complete lack of ethics when regulators didn't see an issue with fentanyl and let it move forward. The "but people are in pain…

I would suggest becoming actually educated before developing strong opinions. The drug is extremely useful and saves lives in a clinical setting; chances are it will save your life or someone you know and love. It's literally used _every hour_ around the clock in ERs. Nearly all problematic Fentanyl in the US is illegally imported and created by third parties overseas. It is not manufactured by those big bad US Pharm…

I’m aware of it being used for epidurals, but honest question - how does this particular painkiller save someone’s life instead of another, less potent painkiller at a higher dosage?

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#344

Post by dotnet00 »

cstejerean wrote: post #322
dotnet00 wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep I've seen similar in various countries with a parent. They were prescribed large doses of some opioid pain killers and despite them being aware of the risk of addiction and thus being very careful about dosing (often skipping doses if the pain was tolerable and asking doctors to minimize the dose), in the end they still had a difficult time coming off them. They didn't end up trying to feed that habit from elsewh…

I think skipping doses might actually increase the likelihood of addiction. One of the things I recall that made oxycontin so problematic was Purdue's insistence to prescribe it as a 12-hour dose. There was an article I recall reading on the topic: https://www.latimes.com/projects/oxycontin-part1/ > Experts said that when there are gaps in the effect of a narcotic like OxyContin, patients can suffer body aches, nause…

Huh, I wasn't aware of that. Will keep it in mind in the future, although hopefully I don't end up needing to do so.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#345

Post by devwastaken »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #160
shaunxcode wrote: post #109

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

> The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine People start using drugs for different reasons. It's not correct to say that everyone starts abusing drugs as a form of pure escapism. A lot of drug users start because they're simply seeking recreation and someone is nearby to make drugs available to them. It's as si…

>Taking ownership of actions and consequences is one of the key pivot points in helping people get control.

Control of what? That's the point of drug abuse - what is there to be controlling? We are gears in someone else's system, purpose is rarely possible in modern society. Address why this is.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#346

Post by serf »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #160
shaunxcode wrote: post #109

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

> The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine People start using drugs for different reasons. It's not correct to say that everyone starts abusing drugs as a form of pure escapism. A lot of drug users start because they're simply seeking recreation and someone is nearby to make drugs available to them. It's as si…

>Variations of this concept are frequently used by drug addicts to justify continued behavior. "It's not my fault, it's society's fault!". Taking ownership of actions and consequences is one of the key pivot points in helping people get control.

I feel like the use of this argument should depend on the scope of the person who is speaking.

Law-makers and society-enablers should consider things in the far-scope of "society's fault", whereas this consideration is less useful on a personal scale other than for the purposes of blame-redirection.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#347

Post by wyre »

version_five wrote: post #341
agentwiggles wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prescription of some kind, maybe in a similar but less permissive vein as medical marijuana, seems right to me too. I'm pretty much in favor of letting people decide what goes into their bodies but I can't see a lot of benefits to freely available fentanyl. But I would definitely like to see an approach that decriminalizes addiction. It's a really tough nut to crack though. Not sure what the best approach is. One of…

> freely available fentanyl I posted up-thread and want to clarify. Fentanyl and other strong synthetic opiates are mostly the product of heroin or opium being illegal. Decriminalized heroin would mean that opiate addicts would not have to resort to sketchy drugs to get high.

I don’t think it would. Fentanyl is on the streets because it is cheaper, stronger, and easier to smuggle than heroin is. Decriminalized heroin wouldn’t stop dealers from cutting their supply with fentanyl which is the main cause of opioid overdoses afaik. Regulated, controlled, and accessible fentanyl would mean addicts can safely get high.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#348

Post by fIREpOK »

shaunxcode wrote: post #109

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

>The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY.

I doubt that it's always a "choice". But it wouldn't surprise if there was many main causes.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#350

Post by opportune »

buzzert wrote: post #167
t433 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legalize everything and produce it pharmaceutically, and this problems pretty much disappears.

A better way to frame the drug legalization issue is, "should pharmaceutical companies be allowed to profit from incredibly addictive drugs?" Does that framing change your mind at all? Sure, small-time drug dealers are currently allowed to profit from it. Once they get big enough though, they're usually stopped by the DEA. The idea of giving this enormous profit incentive to multi-million dollar corporations with hug…

If they were generic, not marketed (a la nicotine products), and used a system similar to the one used by pseudoephedrine, I think it could work.

I think there will be a really big systemic drive to stop this kind of system because if we’re doing this already for “vice” drugs, why not do it for all drugs even if they don’t get you high? This would remove tons of middlemen and give consumers a lot more control over how they get their medication.

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