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Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

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Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#341

Post by JumpCrisscross »

notch656c wrote: post #323
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kuznets' quote is about international finance. Not social unrest. The factors that lead Argentina to collapse are uniquely Argentinian. What happened after that is unsurprising.

>Kuznets' quote is about international finance. >Not social unrest. This is a contradiction. You said social unrest is caused by financial collapse. International finance in a globally integrated economy like Argentina then necessarily becomes a piece of the financial collapse that causes unrest.

Can’t tell if you’re trolling at this point, but it’s not a contradiction, and you’ve ignored the numerous counterfactuals more applicable to America.

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#342

Post by JoshuaDavid »

ars wrote: post #279
ygjb wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's accurate. The bigger issue is economic access - poor people can't afford to stock up since they are often living paycheque to paycheque. Even middle class folks living in dense urban centres have access to car shares and delivery services. Yes there is a cost, but it's usually quite cheap. As for storage, except for the smallest apartments, most storage spaces can be optimized quite a bit for ver…

> poor people can't afford to stock up Sure, that's a problem. But that's not the problem I was talking about. > have access to car shares and delivery services. Yes there is a cost, but it's usually quite cheap. It is most definitely not cheap! You can't buy much because you don't have room, and the cost savings of what you can buy are destroyed by this added expense, making it pointless. > most storage spaces can b…

I think "1 kilo of food per person per day" is a reasonable approximation (e.g. 1kg of dried beans is 3300 calories, 1kg of canned tuna is 1300 calories). 400 kilos of food should be enough to last a family of 4 for 3 months. Efficiently packed, you can fit 400kg of food in a 0.5m x 1m x 1m space (1 large kitchen cabinet).

It's a fair bit of space, but it's not a "fill your bedroom with stuff" amount of space.

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#343

Post by foogazi »

notch656c wrote: post #333
Spivak wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're in a hypothetical world where a major bank lost say millions of bank accounts and for some reason it was going to take months to correct it would hit the news, there would be emergency legislation blocking eviction, utility shutoff, and debt collection, and interest accrual as well as all the lost bank accounts being credited with a some amount as combination fine/stimulus. The fear is when it's just you.

Landlords tolerate eviction moratorium with covid because only a fraction of their tenants stopped paying. I think a scenario where just a few million or whatever were effected you are correct. However if it was almost everyone, landlording would become a straight up mob. You'd have to employ violence and bypass the state to maintain the properties and enterprise. No one would rent out property the legal way if they…

> However if it was almost everyone

By the time it got to this another disaster already happened

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#344

Post by ars »

JoshuaDavid wrote: post #342
ars wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> poor people can't afford to stock up Sure, that's a problem. But that's not the problem I was talking about. > have access to car shares and delivery services. Yes there is a cost, but it's usually quite cheap. It is most definitely not cheap! You can't buy much because you don't have room, and the cost savings of what you can buy are destroyed by this added expense, making it pointless. > most storage spaces can b…

I think "1 kilo of food per person per day" is a reasonable approximation (e.g. 1kg of dried beans is 3300 calories, 1kg of canned tuna is 1300 calories). 400 kilos of food should be enough to last a family of 4 for 3 months. Efficiently packed, you can fit 400kg of food in a 0.5m x 1m x 1m space (1 large kitchen cabinet). It's a fair bit of space, but it's not a "fill your bedroom with stuff" amount of space.

The problem with efficiently packing that is you won't have access to it easily, in order to rotate stock.

If you are not careful you'll end up with spoiled food when you need it.

Plus there's a lot more to stock than just food - It's not just about disaster preparation, we're also trying to save money and packaging and resources.

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#345

Post by notch656c »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #341
notch656c wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Kuznets' quote is about international finance. >Not social unrest. This is a contradiction. You said social unrest is caused by financial collapse. International finance in a globally integrated economy like Argentina then necessarily becomes a piece of the financial collapse that causes unrest.

Can’t tell if you’re trolling at this point, but it’s not a contradiction, and you’ve ignored the numerous counterfactuals more applicable to America.

Lol while we're going with the troll accusation (yeah I realize you said "trolling" not "troll" but it's just a back-door to the ad-hominem attack), I'd like to point out the person refusing the relation of the banking measures which came immediately before the riots (and even have a wikipedia page which describes the subsequent anger and violence) as somehow being not a cause of the unrest, is a self described ex "investment banker." Who'd of guessed it.

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#346

Post by Idk__Throwaway »

phpisthebest wrote: post #272
anonporridge wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I believe leadership in urban environments would quickly turn over to existing city gangs in a collapse scenario. Maybe the police would be one gang that controls a fraction of the city. Urban gangs already have the required tribal associations, intimate understanding of the terrain and resources therein, and the propensity to commit violence that would be required to take control. Any of us good citizens…

The question is, in total societal collapse situation do you want to live? I am not sure I would want to.

I'd just want to stick around to see how things panned out, it'd be pretty interesting.

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#347

Post by StanislavPetrov »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #309
sowbug wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN likes to trash Bitcoin, but at least you can understand where the pro-Bitcoin folks are coming from. If a cashless society is inevitable, would you prefer that all such transactions be mediated by a small number of large corporations? Or would you prefer the option of at least some of your transactions happening through a peer-to-peer system that no corporation or government controls?

Bitcoin doesn't have an undo button. I know somebody who works cybercrime and they routinely get people their money back after being scammed. If they were scammed into using bitcoin that money is gone.

Some of us would much rather take a tiny chance at being "scammed" than the certainty of being at the mercy of the government, the banks and the payment processors. In an ideal world, both of these choices would be available to adults to manage their risks and their own finances as they saw fit, rather than being forced into the latter system "for their own good".

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#348

Post by uticus »

r00fus wrote: post #292
uticus wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow this is the first I've seen of this, amazing it hasn't come across my radar. Seems like a major consolidation, tied closely to a government institution (or whatever the FRB technically is).

Can you explain what you mean by consolidation? It's essentially a standards-based collaborative approach not unlike other large payment networks like in the UK, Europe and India.

Apologies for the armchair commentary. "Consolidation" meaning commerce regulation and oversight more tightly consolidated than possible with technology (including paper notes) currently used.

> ...standards-based collaborative approach...

You have not said this explicitly, but for myself it is notable that this is not peer-to-peer, with both parties collaborating based on a standard. Instead it is clearinghouse. Unlike peer-to-peer standards, this would give the Fed Reserve at least a large dataset or at most a large control lever. From the linked article:

> Through financial institutions participating in the FedNow Service... > Consistent with the Federal Reserve’s historical role of providing payment services...

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#349

Post by costco »

snotrockets wrote: post #260
DennisP wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wire transfers aren't reversible if you're not quick enough to do it before the money transfers out of the country. Home purchases and business wires have both seen over a billion dollars in wire fraud annually, just in the US. https://www.rocketmortgage.com/learn/mortgage-wire-fraud https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesbusinesscouncil/2022/08/3...

Wire transfers are also reversible. It may not be easy or cheap to do so, but it is possible (the Citigroup $500mm mispayment is a great example: the error was done August 2020, and Citigroup are still working to undo it, at an expense to them. I'm certain it'll take them a few more months, and God only knows how many more billable hours at the very least).

Is it still reversible when the money is sent to Turkey or Kazakhstan and tracing and investigating the ultimate destination of where it went (likely to a bunch of bank accounts set up by nominees or stolen identities and ultimately to Binance or the local equivalent) would require almost as much money as the loss?

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#350

Post by thedougd »

dcist wrote: post #147

I got scammed by a Zelle transfer when someone used my phone (without my authorization). I didn't even know I had Zelle but it's built into the BofA app. I lost $3,000. BofA refused to refund any of the transfer or reverse it. Total trash feature. I didn't sign up for it. I don't want it. BofA signed me up for it. I'm changing banks because of it.

File a complaints with regulators including the FDIC and Federal Reserve.
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