Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly. The lights create a kind of moral hazard: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_hazard
I think https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_compensation might be a better fit.
Good point, thanks.
Friday night’s near-disaster at JFK airport
341–350 of 372 posts
Re: Friday night’s near-disaster at JFK airport
#342Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pretty much all three airports (EWR, LGA, JFK) are already at capacity, so there's no room for others to take any load.
A solution that'll anger people but resolve the capacity issus, all flights with not a final destination in USA can only connect through Stewart airport.
Do they have a sterile transit area to support international transfers? I didn’t think any US airport had that and US requires transit visas and immigration clearance to transit
Re: Friday night’s near-disaster at JFK airport
#343Earlier quoted context omitted.
The reason surgery is so far behind aeronautics is likely entirely due to the fact that when a surgery goes wrong, it usually doesn't kill hundreds of people at once in a massive fireball. Everything else being equal, rare but spectacular failures tend to garner more attention than more frequent but less dramatic ones.
> The reason surgery is so far behind aeronautics is likely entirely due to the fact that when a surgery goes wrong Surgery is not a public performance. How do you even find out about the mistakes that occur? Fatal mistakes, sure, maybe... You have a better bet of your dash cam showing what happened when your car is hit by another car, if something happens to you. I think nobody's really going to know what mistakes w…
Atul Gawande’s „Checklist Manifesto” is also fantastic. He goes specifically into how airline and construction safety checklists make those industries safer and then lays out a checklist method for reducing complications in the OR.
There is some discussion on implementing black box style recording into the OR. I’ve met surgeons enthusiastic for this idea as an opportunity to geek out even more. But this enthusiasm depends on how authoritarian culture is in a given country. The OR is also often a place where people are in a corrupted power structure. I have been to countries where dangerous surgeons are covered by younger surgeons - that’s where recording in the OR is less popular.
On the other hand I have heard arguments against such recording as well. Anatomies differ, shit gets ugly to unqualified bystanders. Insurance keeps an eye on everything. Surgeons can become so careful that they prefer not to help so as not to endanger their career.
Re: Friday night’s near-disaster at JFK airport
#344Earlier quoted context omitted.
That’ll be a nice upgrade. Newark and La Guardia look so old. Same with Terminal 1 in Boston. The Detroit airport looks amazing next to them.
You haven't been to La Guardia recently. It's by far the nicest airport in the tristate and one of the better ones in the country after the remodel. JFK is the one new yorkers avoid now (or EWR if you don't live in Manhattan).
Didn’t even realize they rebuilt a terminal too, it does look pretty cool:
https://thepointsguy.com/news/first-look-delta-new-laguardia...
Re: Friday night’s near-disaster at JFK airport
#345I flew into JFK in December and was surprised the number of concurrent operations going on… landing queues of 5+ planes in the sky for the two runways, long takeoff queues, so many land operations… once you touch down it sure feels like the pilot knows they have to get that plane off the runway ASAP. Felt much more busy than I have previously going through LAX/SFO/London/Dubai. I wonder if the level of traffic at JFK…
> once you touch down it sure feels like the pilot knows they have to get that plane off the runway ASAP Do yourself a favor and do a youtube search for "kennedy steve." He's famous for managing this chaos with a commanding voice and prompt instruction while maintaining a good sense of humor.
Thanks for the mention! I was entertained by him for a bit last night on YouTube. In his interview he talked about how much the M3 airlines didn’t appreciate his style, good times
Re: Friday night’s near-disaster at JFK airport
#346Earlier quoted context omitted.
My understanding is that there is a shit ton that is and always has been happening in this area. Air safety is the leading sector in standards for safety training. We are relying on checklists, procedures, surveillance tech, simulation training, certification, re-certification etc. etc. No other industry has put in as much thought into these problems. Except for maybe the military. Source: I had the opportunity to me…
The reason surgery is so far behind aeronautics is likely entirely due to the fact that when a surgery goes wrong, it usually doesn't kill hundreds of people at once in a massive fireball. Everything else being equal, rare but spectacular failures tend to garner more attention than more frequent but less dramatic ones.
I might have over done it on the surgery bit but yeah, an individual malpractice episode is hush hush, insured and supervised, he said she said sort of thing.
Re: Friday night’s near-disaster at JFK airport
#347Earlier quoted context omitted.
My understanding is that there is a shit ton that is and always has been happening in this area. Air safety is the leading sector in standards for safety training. We are relying on checklists, procedures, surveillance tech, simulation training, certification, re-certification etc. etc. No other industry has put in as much thought into these problems. Except for maybe the military. Source: I had the opportunity to me…
Take a look at: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crew_resource_management
Ha! Yeah crew resource management is what I meant but misremembered as critical resource management.
Re: Friday night’s near-disaster at JFK airport
#348Earlier quoted context omitted.
Newark and LaGuardia are just as packed. The nyc airspace is just over used.
Sounds like the airports need to increase the pricing to the point where it's gonna reduce a bit the traffic.
What pricing?
Airports are in-effect giant malls. They rent out space to shops, and airlines. Ostensibly the airport authority has set the pricing to maximize net income. For example DIA's authority is the city and county of Denver. JFK's is the Port Authority, which includes EWR and LGA, but also much of other transit in the area including LIRR, and MTA, but includes seaports, bridges and tunnels, and ... real estate.
ATC is run by the FAA whose budget is set by Congress. Everything is paid for. There are no per use fees. Landing fees are not federal, they're imposed by (local) airport authorities. The weather, flight service, ATC, national airspace system, navaids, all of that stuff is provided by the federal government.
ATC and FAA don't want to be in the business of collecting fees. And airport authorities don't want them to because it would necessarily cut into their take, and it would also mean they lack exclusive control to set pricing and thus demand and thus limit their ability to maximize income. It's a shopping mall.
Re: Friday night’s near-disaster at JFK airport
#349I want to offer a bit of a different perspective than the one I'm seeing in other comments which (totally reasonably) wonder if a) JFK is too busy or needs some safety upgrades and b) whether voice contact with ATC is the best way to reduce risk during unusual events like incursions. I'm just an amateur enthusiast who listens to a lot of ATC, so take this assessment with that grain of salt: JFK has long had a unique…
> The controller did a few things that are unusual in ATC, but not totally unheard of at JFK in particular: > * Completely changed tone of voice. He yelled into the mic. That doesn't happen often in ATC. > * Yelled "SHIT!" to open his transmission. > * Spoke in a way that emphasized speed and urgency even if it cost a little clarity (eg, some news outlets have transcribed "cancel takeoff clearance" as "cancel takeoff…
The phenomenon I'm describing as palpable at JFK ATC is not dependent on volume or vocal intensity (both of which are clearly palpable in the recording you've linked).
Sp. leaving aside whether or not it's more "subdued" (they're both unusual in tone, I'm sure we can agree), the JFK controller did something that the Midway controller didn't: repeated the entire transmission including callsign, in case his first tx had been stepped on, unbeknownst to him.
He was able to do this in such a quick timeframe because he was employing the phenomenon I'm describing. Dialing deep into it: the way he allowed his full NY accent to come out ("cleh-ance" instead of "clearance", for example) delivered the full message at a very high signal to the ear _twice_ in about the same span as the Midway controller (while yes, using a louder volume) got a less clear message across only once.
I dream of being an ATC. It's something I'll do later in life in the context of a multiplayer game, I think.
Re: Friday night’s near-disaster at JFK airport
#350Earlier quoted context omitted.
You don't need cameras for that, they wouldn't work in lower visibility. Typically ground radar is used for this at large airports.
If the visibility is that low, wouldn't the airport be shut down? Cameras are far cheaper than radar.
Not at all. Minimum visibility for takeoff is often 600ft and can be lower than that.