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India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

economictimes.indiatimes.com

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Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#341

Post by soledades »

Xeoncross wrote: post #323
Zircom wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now India is in a transition period and wages for these kinds of jobs are keeping pace with gains in productivity and that's how you're seeing so many lifting themselves are their families out of poverty. However, if history is anything to go by that will stop pretty soon as the hyper upper class solidifies their hold on wealth, appreciating assets, and means of production, and will start to keep larger and lar…

I'm not sure what the "free market" has to do with it. Capitalism, communism, feudalism, socialism, etc.. always end with the majority of money and power concentrated with the few. It's just human behavior to be selfish.

I agree with the first part of your point, but this in particular is an emergent phenomena that only happens with large-scale civilizations.

So I think some kind of sociological argument makes more sense (I don't know what that would be though).

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#342

Post by eunos »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #3

One of the best things about living in India is watching families move from lower or lower-middle class to middle-class status. Usually, all it takes is someone from the family landing a white-collar job. While the tech bodyshops (TCS, Infosys, etc.) might have a poor reputation in the US, these companies have been absolutely critical in helping move tens of millions into middle-class respectability.

>While the tech bodyshops (TCS, Infosys, etc.) might have a poor reputation in the US, these companies have been absolutely critical in helping move tens of millions into middle-class respectability

This is related to the Elephant Curve brought out by Globalization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elephant_Curve

That is more or less, middle classes from developing countries exploded in number. While for the developed countries, their middle class doesnt share the same fortune. The upper class however, reap heavy fortune.

Unfortunately it seems the developed countries' middle class appetite to sustain this is waning.

http://glineq.blogspot.com/2022/10/lets-go-back-to-mercantil...

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#343

Post by cuteboy19 »

softveda wrote: post #241
gandalfgeek wrote: post #140

I grew up in India in the 90s, saw first hand the transition from the disastrous socialism of the Nehru era to open markets, capitalism and deregulation. (The end of "license raj".) It started with PV Narasimha Rao as PM and Manmohan Singh as his finance minister in the early 90s. Thankfully Singh himself had a fruitful tenure as PM later. All it took for India to take off was the shackles of govt control to come off…

The license raj is still there for business, except maybe some sectors like tech startups. Yes there has been improvements in citizens life like mobile phones etc. But official harassment and bribery is as prevalent as before. Want to get a passport issued or renewed have to pay Rs 500 to the police. Just last week a mother and her kids died as they were turned away from a govt hospital as they could not show the Aad…

Aadhar card actually lessens corruption. Before aadhar government aid could go to whoever. With aadhar the points where corruption can happen is drastically reduced (to 1).

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#344

Post by cuteboy19 »

rippercushions wrote: post #274
Dharmakirti wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can tell my personal story if that matters. Background: I come from a non-UC, rural yeoman farmers family. I grew up in rural India and used to spend my summer and winter vacations working on our family farm along with my cousins. I was the first Engineer in my family and studied in a Government college, and most of my batchmates were from a similar background, with over 50% of them being lower classes. I have witn…

> The infrastructure is also much better than it was in the 90s. My grandfather would be shocked to see the Nagpur Metro and would think Aliens built it. I think this is underappreciated. Yes, infra in India is still not Switzerland, but eg. airports are now unimaginably better compared to just 20 years ago, when you needed a biohazard suit to venture into the bathrooms at DEL.

Chicago, Philly and LAX airports are all much much worse than DEL or BOM

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#345

Post by rikthevik »

retinaros wrote: post #266
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My FIL funded their maid’s kids education. The son got into a decent engineering school and landed a job at TCS. The daughter studied nursing and got a job at a large chain hospital. The kids bought their mom an apartment and a car. Its just amazing to watch - this woman’s mom, grandmom, aunts, uncles were all peasants or did odd trades. Now because of a single generation, the entire family could dream of middle clas…

its amazing. and unfortunately they will be the last generation that will be able to do it. just like for western countries everything will become unaffordable and the middle class wont be able to buy houses

Ah yes, the doomer perspective. Tiresome.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#346

Post by cuteboy19 »

Choco31415 wrote: post #108
newsclues wrote: post #85

Hasn't there been recent news about toxic pollution in the region? What good is lifting people out of poverty, if they are lifted out of poverty and placed in a toxic urban environment?

That article was specifically about India’s capital. It’s also possible that problem can be fixed in the future, so people are lifted into a clean urban environment. Also, last I recalled, London faced similar issues before and is in a much healthier state nowadays.

It's also more about geography. Had there been no Himalayas, the problem would be much less acute

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#347

Post by mayama »

bergenty wrote: post #97
piva00 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be careful with that, I saw the same happening in Brazil between 2002-2012 just to start unraveling quickly after that. Our economies and societies are still pretty fragile, any political shock can start a downwards spiral. Stay vigilant.

I think the difference is India is a major startup hub that mostly caters to the local market so the effort to shift to more resilient income streams not completely dependent on the global market are underway, something Brazil did not do.

And recent focus on manufacturing. New govt is heavily pushing local manufacturing(atmanirbhar bharat) for last 8 years. Progress is already being felt in some areas, for example in smartphone manufacturing India went from nothing to #2 in world in those years. They are now targeting more phone phone supply chains like pcb, modems etc. and other consumer electronics too.

https://tech.hindustantimes.com/tech/news/india-now-2nd-larg...

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#348

Post by dartharva »

Pmop wrote: post #299

So they lifted almost twice my home country's population out of poverty in 15 years? That's impressive. Also, how did India got to have so many people?

India has always had so many people relative to the rest of the world. I don't think there is any point in history since the bronze age where India and China weren't the most populous places in the world.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#349

Post by haltingproblem »

rikthevik wrote: post #345
retinaros wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its amazing. and unfortunately they will be the last generation that will be able to do it. just like for western countries everything will become unaffordable and the middle class wont be able to buy houses

Ah yes, the doomer perspective. Tiresome.

Every generation is the last one to have prosperity. "My children will be better off than me" said no upper middle class burgher, evah.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#350

Post by tmd83 »

rsgrafx wrote: post #220
FooBarWidget wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I see Indian developers, I have in my mind that they're similar to Chinese: the whole village bands together and gather resources to give that one kid a university education and a good job, so that that one kid returns to the village many years later to help people out of poverty.

I have an uncle who came from Malaysia to the US in the 70's to do his studies. He was "given the task by his village elders.." as he would say and they did exactly that pooled resources and made sure he finished school. When I heard his story I was so moved. He's built everyone in his village a house, invested in many businesses now, literally changed lives of countless families and friends.

What a beautiful story. Both how the village came together to help him and how he remembered those elders and their contribution. Both are such rare gifts in a jaded world.
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