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Delaware judge discovers hidden entity recruiting people to be patent trolls

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Re: Delaware judge discovers hidden entity recruiting people to be patent trolls

#341

Post by smsm42 »

omniglottal wrote: post #339
smsm42 wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CU vs FEC did not rely on the concept of corporate personhood. If anything, if this concept didn't exist it would be even stronger, because then there would be absolutely no legal reason to treat a group of people differently just because they're acting together. What would be the argument - you can do it individually, but once you gather in one building and have a banner at the entrance and a receptionist, you all s…

No, you (the individual) do not lose any of your rights. However, the manifestation of a corporate entity should not generate a new right-bearing entity. I get only one vote - making Me, Inc. should not provide me a path to be represented twice - as though to cast a second vote. Money is not speech. This is tge court's error. Treating a thing as though it's a different thing or concept than what it is breaks everythi…

> However, the manifestation of a corporate entity should not generate a new right-bearing entity.

Of course it should, that's the whole purpose of the corporation. That's the premise whole western financial system is built on - that the corporations are right-bearing entities. That doesn't mean they are people - it means that in the western legal system, certain rights can attach to entities other than people. That's no surprise to anybody who would look into how corporations work and why they were invented in the first place.

> as though to cast a second vote

Voting rights have never been part of corporate personhood, what are you talking about?

> Money is not speech

Money by itself is a resource. This resource can be spent on speech - I can pay money to facilitate my speech. If you prevent me from doing that, you essentially shutting down my speech - what is the use of it if nobody can hear or read it, because publishing costs money, and I am prohibited from that? In a separation of labor society - which by now is every society - money is a necessary prerequisite to use the services of society. And no (significant) societal activity can be performed without involving money, one way or another. Thus, money are not speech, literally, but money are a necessary gateway to speech.

> This is tge court's error.

No, that's your error by trying to misrepresent the court's decision in a way that is convenient to you for criticizing it. The court did not say "corporations are people" or "money is speech" - they said something that the opposing side activists turned into such slogans, but if you want to understand and not just scream out your rage, then you need to go to the actual meaning, beyond the slogans.

Re: Delaware judge discovers hidden entity recruiting people to be patent trolls

#342

Post by puffoflogic »

tracker1 wrote: post #77
williamcotton wrote: post #6

It is too easy for people to hide behind corporate entities and to the detriment of public accountability.

Unfortunately, anything short of a constitutional amendment explicitly stating that corporations and other collective entities do not have $list_of_rights that one may possess as an individual would be very difficult to keep in practice. Of course, this also would have to be limited to collective representation, not a group of people in person (such as at a physical protest). It could be very messy at this point. And…

Would unions be more like protests or like corporations? I'm trying to figure out the underlying principle used to determine whether a group of people has rights or not.

Stripping unions of their rights might be a bit controversial. On the other hand, "collective representation" is essentially the definition of a union.

Re: Delaware judge discovers hidden entity recruiting people to be patent trolls

#343

Post by fwipsy »

smsm42 wrote: post #337
williamcotton wrote: post #6

It is too easy for people to hide behind corporate entities and to the detriment of public accountability.

We've been running that "public accountability" experiment with twitter mobs (and sometimes actual arsonist mobs) running around "holding people accountable" for whatever they don't like... And I'm not sure we actually want more of this. It doesn't seem somehow to improve anything.

I don't think you're using the same definition of public accountability as the parent comment. I think parent comment just means that they are able to be identified and held accountable by law enforcement.

Re: Delaware judge discovers hidden entity recruiting people to be patent trolls

#344

Post by salawat »

blobbers wrote: post #338
account42 wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire idea of defensive patents makes a mockery of the original intention. "Patents are so fucked that the only recourse is to get your own patents so that even though you may inftringe others' patents they likely also infringe yours and would lose as much as they can gain by enforcing their purpoted exclusivity." MAD.

Curious why you say that it mocks the original intention. If they're infringing on you, and you're infringing on them, then it nets out. By patenting your own developments, you allow yourself to legally net out. If you don't patent it, then in the eyes of the law it is not equal. Seems like its a quantification of intellectual property, which doesn't mock anything.

The issue at point with the patent system is that it was intended to incentivize innovation, and the evolution of the State of the Art. The building of large general patent portfolios by wielded by NPE's as a financial instrument does the exact opposite.

So while you might "net out", said netting out is not helping society actually advance, in fact it makes it more difficult to do so as you try to avoid potholes created by patent x-1 in your own journeys to actually innovate/invent.

The moment you get a self'sustaining finance engine implementable from a legal construct, it will be beaten reoeatedly, as fast and hard as possible til all the money possible can be extracted.

Re: Delaware judge discovers hidden entity recruiting people to be patent trolls

#346

Post by gota »

notlukesky wrote: post #292
btrettel wrote: post #60

Current USPTO patent examiner here. The most effective way to eliminate bad patents would be to give examiners more time, say double the time across the board to start. If an examiner can't find prior art in the little time they're given, and they have no other reasons to reject the application, they'll have to grant it. The amount of time was (basically) set in the 1970s based on data from the 1960s. There have been…

What’s the best way to invalidate a patent when you have prior art from years before without lawyers? Or do you have to pay them no matter what?

Please don't trust what I'm going to say without checking with a lawyer or someone who actually knows their stuff -

You can email the author, I guess. As far as I know patent authors have an eternal duty of disclosing prior art on their own patents.

I assume that if you email prior art to the author they have to report it to the USPTO. Not sure if the patent would ever be invalidated though

Re: Delaware judge discovers hidden entity recruiting people to be patent trolls

#347

Post by gota »

system2 wrote: post #192
DueDilligence wrote: post #189

.. I now fear for the judges life.

This is not Brazil. They do not kill judges in the street.

Curious why you think that is something associated to Brazil.

There has been literally - and I mean literally on the literal sense - one case from 11 years ago and none before or after that in my lifetime

Re: Delaware judge discovers hidden entity recruiting people to be patent trolls

#348

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy »

smsm42 wrote: post #337
williamcotton wrote: post #6

It is too easy for people to hide behind corporate entities and to the detriment of public accountability.

We've been running that "public accountability" experiment with twitter mobs (and sometimes actual arsonist mobs) running around "holding people accountable" for whatever they don't like... And I'm not sure we actually want more of this. It doesn't seem somehow to improve anything.

That’s not public accountability. That’s vigilantism. Vigilantism occurs when the judicial branch fails to do the barest minimum of their fucking job. In case you’ve forgotten, the rules in society are written in blood. Whenever the government neglects their responsibility society at large will refresh the ink on the contract. As regrettable as this may be, the people to blame are not the ones in the mobs, but the ones who neglected to exercise their authority to enforce the social contract and hold criminals to account. Want it to stop? Stop acting shitty, take responsibility, learn and adapt. or retire to make room for those understand contemporary society if becoming a better person is so distasteful.

Enduring the consequences of one’s actions with complaint is not accountability, it’s a temper tantrum. Whether the consequences are administered by vigilantes or courts is immaterial to the earnestness of anyone’s accountability. The vast majority of people being publicly shamed have an elementary understanding of accountability and their hollow efforts are an insult to the time of everyone subjected to their rambling excuses, projections, victim blaming, lies, and other erroneous thought patterns.

I don’t want more bystanders getting caught up in the courts because they took action when our leaders sat on their hands. That said, I have no sympathy for the public figures having their legacies dragged through the mud after careers of horrendous behaviors get brought to light.

Re: Delaware judge discovers hidden entity recruiting people to be patent trolls

#349

Post by smsm42 »

fwipsy wrote: post #343
smsm42 wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've been running that "public accountability" experiment with twitter mobs (and sometimes actual arsonist mobs) running around "holding people accountable" for whatever they don't like... And I'm not sure we actually want more of this. It doesn't seem somehow to improve anything.

I don't think you're using the same definition of public accountability as the parent comment. I think parent comment just means that they are able to be identified and held accountable by law enforcement.

Law enforcement can request the documents, subpoena the contractors and see the chain of ownership - just like the judge did. Not sure what this has to do with the "public".

Re: Delaware judge discovers hidden entity recruiting people to be patent trolls

#350

Post by smsm42 »

Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #348
smsm42 wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've been running that "public accountability" experiment with twitter mobs (and sometimes actual arsonist mobs) running around "holding people accountable" for whatever they don't like... And I'm not sure we actually want more of this. It doesn't seem somehow to improve anything.

That’s not public accountability. That’s vigilantism. Vigilantism occurs when the judicial branch fails to do the barest minimum of their fucking job. In case you’ve forgotten, the rules in society are written in blood. Whenever the government neglects their responsibility society at large will refresh the ink on the contract. As regrettable as this may be, the people to blame are not the ones in the mobs, but the on…

> Want it to stop? Stop acting shitty, take responsibility, learn and adapt. or retire to make room for those understand contemporary society if becoming a better person is so distasteful.

Nice round of victim-blaming. Don't like the random mob vigilantism? Well, it's probably your fault and that's the modern society for you, and again your fault for not embracing it enthusiastically. In fact, you are a bad person for it! Nice.

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