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We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

erikmcclure.com

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Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#341

Post by hinkley »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #236
hinkley wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if GPU makers made motherboards?

All the big ones do already.

Sorry, what I meant was, what if the GPU and the motherboard fused into one unit. So the CPU and main memory in but the card is fixed.

I guess the main problem with that we have this cycle where most people have a single graphics card with one or two monitors plugged in, and the power users have two of them to drive four screens, or to have 2 cards drive one monitor by daisy chaining them together.

But in the case of the latter two, it's usually a problem of a bottleneck between the card and the main bus, which of course if you were making the motherboard, you'd have a lot more say in how that is constructed.

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#342

Post by adwf »

ascar wrote: post #186

I'm surprised this isn't mentioned here more clearly: Some high end cases like the be quiet silent base I'm using have the option to mount the graphics card vertically, basically parallel to the mainboard, in a separate anchor slot. It needs an additional connector cable (~$20), but other than that is easy to setup, looks better with a look-in case (the illuminated fans face the glass side) and the weight pulls on a…

I was going to say much the same. Vertical mount is a game changer.

Whilst this example is a bit on the extreme side:

https://uk.thermaltake.com/the-tower-900.html

It does have some nice properties, no GFX card sag, any water cooling leaks can't drop on expensive components, power supply is back and away too.

Most important point is the cables out the top are covered by a shield so you don't have the ugliness.

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#343

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

gh02t wrote: post #118
jsjohnst wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We're already not far off of that being a serious concern even on non-crazy builds. Show me an example of a “non-crazy” build that’s over 1,200W, let alone over 1,500W. I’m genuinely curious.

I said near, we still have some breathing room. But as noted elsewhere, 15 A is a max for short periods, the practical limit for continuous use is more like 1200-1400 W which definitely seems like it might be plausible soon. Plus other things on the circuit. Fancy ultra bright HDR monitors use a decent chunk of power, and anything else.

1200 W, even for a short period of time, is crazy for a desktop computer.

I have an i9-9900K and an RTX 3080. My computer is also plugged into a Kill-a-watt to measure its power usage.

I ran Prime95's CPU torture test using the max power option while also crypto-mining on the GPU. I peaked at 650 watts for a couple seconds until the CPU began thermal throttling.

If I can't hit 700 watts while trying to use as much energy as possible, I can't imagine what monster system would even touch 1000 watts, assuming we're still talking consumer-grade.

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#344

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

skirmish wrote: post #17
rascul wrote: post #11

Why can't I find a recent GPU that doesn't take up half my case? Do the GPU manufacturers not care about people who want more than onboard graphics but don't need the most powerful gaming GPU?

Simple: GPU manufacturers would much rather sell you a flagship at $1000+ than multiple basic cards at $150. Duopoly in the market and no competition, why would they reduce their margins?

> flagship at $1000+ than multiple basic cards at $150

Those aren't even the same market segment.

The type of person buying a flagship card would not even be considering a basic card and vice-versa.

Also, a part of me used to get frustrated at the existence of the "basic" cards, like the GT 1030. I've seen more than one person wanting to build a gaming PC and see a budget card like that and think they're getting a current-gen card without knowing that the budget cards are horrendously underpowered. For example, the GT 1030 is about the speed of a GTX 470, a mid-grade card from 7 years before it.

Maybe some people are fine getting that weak of a card, but if that's all you need, I'd question if you even need a discrete GPU.

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#345

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

Victerius wrote: post #50

With a power consumption of that magnitude, no wonder power grids are buckling everywhere. People's hunger for power is seemingly insatiable.

The power grid is only crumbling in places where political corruption is blocking fixing the grid.

See Texas.

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#346

Post by topspin »

rawoke083600 wrote: post #222
topspin wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you “folded” the GPU over the CPU to save height I would think that would be worse than today for heat. Why? Cooling would be far better: the CPU and GPU heatsinks would both face outward from the center and receive clean front-to-rear airflow. Thus, looking down from above: intake air --> [cpu heatsink] exhaust --> [cpu+vrm+ram+chipset] ---------pcb---------- | [gpu heatsink] exhaust --> The power supply and po…

Upvote for ascii-visual-aids

Thanks. :)

I've been refining this. I'm actually learning FreeCAD to knock out a realistic 3D model.

One obvious change: run the CPU/GPU interconnect across the bottom: existing GPU designs could be used unmodified (or enhanced with only a new heatsink) and the 16x PCI-E lanes for the GPU would be easier to route off the CPU PCB.

There are virtually no significant differences between the motherboard layout IBM promulgated with original IBM PC (model 5150) in 1981 and what we have today. That machine had a 63W power supply and no heatsinks or fans outside the power supply. The solution to all existing problems with full featured, high power desktop machines is replacing the obsolescent motherboard design with something that accommodates what people have been building for at least 20 years now (approximately since the Prescott era and the rise of high power GPUs.)

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#347

Post by tpmx »

naasking wrote: post #333
tpmx wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd need counterweights in the front. :-)

Or the case designed for mounting comes with extendable legs to support the weight. Or the monitor is designed on some kind of lever system that can be set to balance. Lots of options.

I kind of like your first idea. The motherboard would be vertically mounted, and then have 90 degree PCIe risers that are structurally reinforced somehow, so that the heavy GPU can also be mounted vertically. You could have 2 of them, one for the GPU and one for additional cards. The whole thing would be mounted via the VESA screw holes on the monitor.

Would probably mostly work for people with quite large monitors though. 40+ inch 4k monitors rock!

... or we just stick with tower cases and some kind of structural reinforcements for the heavy GPU.

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#348

Post by dawnbreez »

wongarsu wrote: post #284
qwerty456127 wrote: post #271

Back in the days when I was a kid tower PCs were comparably rare and most of the PCs used the horizontal desktop design which essentially is the same like a tower but put on its side. People would often put the monitor on top of it to save the desk space (see the Windows 95-2000 "my computer" icon). Isn't it time for that to return so we wouldn't need “GPU Support Sticks”? By the way, what actually dissatisfies me is…

> horizontal desktop design That's be a pretty clever solution. I wonder if any case designers are brave enough to try to pitch that solution. Somewhat fits in the rising popularity of putting your tower on your desk. > I don't understand why some extra slots have to raise the cost up 10 times Part is market differentiation, but the other part is that you quickly run out of PCIe lanes to the CPU (especially with Inte…

Another useful feature of the horizontal desktop design is that putting the monitor on the case brings it closer to a comfortable viewing level.

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#349

Post by 15155 »

RL_Quine wrote: post #244
15155 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you give me a lever long enough and a place to stand, I will move the world. The length of the 3090 with air cooling is what makes it so heavy on the PCIE connector - localized coldplate weight is not an issue.

The water block is full coverage, the length of the card on both sides, and is a gigantic block of copper. With the water inside it’s even heavier.

For the 3090 FE, at least, the card is half the length of the air cooler and an EKWB 3090 FE waterblock is the same length as the board.

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#350

Post by whywhywhywhy »

Shorel wrote: post #312
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This doesn’t really help dual GPU setups They are with the people who spend the most money on GPUs

Are they? Seems with the last GPU generation most enthusiast websites recommend to go for a bigger card instead of going SLI.

GPGPU workflows scale in a linear fashion so the more you buy the faster your workloads run
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