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German digital signage ban prompts confusion

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Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#341

Post by seiferteric »

morsch wrote: post #153
xxs wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>1300 kwh/year this is extremely, extremely low. No heating, no cooling, no hot water, no car charging. A fridge alone tends to be over 400KW/h. Edit: polycaster listed close to 5kWh/year for 3+ household. 1person being 2k. So, extremely low estimate.

Well, infamously, German households tend to generate heat using gas, and not electricity. AC is rare. EVs are rare. Either way, I wanted to know what the actual power draw of those signs is, and since it was given in multiples of a (German) single household, well, that's probably about the number they are working with.

Yes which is why the 1300kWh/year is bogus. Gas usage is energy usage. If that is factored in it would be much higher I am sure.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#342

Post by xxs »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #279
odshoifsdhfs wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Among the EU, germans drive more km per car than anyone else except Austria (data from 2000, can't find newer). Among the EU, Germans rank 6th on car ownership per capita (2020 data). Going these together, and it shows within the EU, Germans are the on the top of km per capita and not 'we drive less than others' (except maybe the US) Your reply to someone asking about charging their EV(thus need to drive) was that in…

Data from 2000 is missing two decades of economic growth in Eastern Europe and major EU-funded investments in infrastructure in that region. But let's assume, Germany is still high in the ranks. What does it prove? In Europe the life style from Dublin to Warsaw isn't that different: we often live in an apartment rather than in a house in suburb, we rely on public transportation and have great networks, using a bike i…

It's still very likely Germans drive more - Germany is very decentralized (which is amazing, e.g. no grid locks), and it has one of the best railroads in the world... still has likely one the best highways as well.

The only East European country that can possible change the stats would be Poland (but personally I don't believe that) - the rest are just too small.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#343

Post by dontlaugh »

samatman wrote: post #320
jhoechtl wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they are power-hungry and everyone knows that. More generally because the climate in central Europe is not like Arizona, Utah, New Mexico, California but hospitable during the summer season without AC. AC makes it more comfortable during hot days but it is still doable without. This is only true for private households. Since 10 years ACs are widely used in a business environment.

Germans should be using heat pumps for their homes anyway, it can't be beaten for efficiency. Every time I mention this there's someone who doesn't know that heat pump systems don't require excavation: they don't. This gets you air conditioning literally for free, and you get to be the one to frown at your neighbors for continuing to burn something to stay warm.

Only if you get an air-to-air heat pump, commonly called air conditioning.

Air-to-water heat pumps still only change the temperature of water, which is practically only useful for heating.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#344

Post by xxs »

morsch wrote: post #153
xxs wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>1300 kwh/year this is extremely, extremely low. No heating, no cooling, no hot water, no car charging. A fridge alone tends to be over 400KW/h. Edit: polycaster listed close to 5kWh/year for 3+ household. 1person being 2k. So, extremely low estimate.

Well, infamously, German households tend to generate heat using gas, and not electricity. AC is rare. EVs are rare. Either way, I wanted to know what the actual power draw of those signs is, and since it was given in multiples of a (German) single household, well, that's probably about the number they are working with.

Using gas is worse than use geothermal, unless you somehow have gas powered geo thermal pumps (and still worse than solar+geo thermal). So the energy use would be higher.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#345

Post by cardanome »

someguydave wrote: post #274
DocTomoe wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Other than hoping for a early peace in Ukraine I don't really anything that could solve the issues. I guess we will just have to tough it out. Don't worry. The government is setting up all the right parameters for a revolution to replace them. Large parts of Germany, especially in the already government-critical east, are dependant on gas. Let October be the first cold month that hits us ... and the first grandma w…

So you think Germans will not blame Russia for problems caused by the lack of Russian gas?

Russia claims it would deliver as much gas as we need if we were to open Nordstream-2 though.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#346

Post by eldaisfish »

tlocke wrote: post #48
turing_complete wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot power a country with wind power alone. Even if you want to build wind turbines, you need nuclear, gas, or coal to back them up.

If you build enough renewables, then there comes a point when at times you're generating more than is needed immediately. That surplus electricity can be used to make hydrogen gas by electrolysing water. The gas can be stored indefinitely and burned to generate electricity when needed. So with enough renewables, no fossil fuels are needed.

this "around the corner" argument is getting tiresome. We have a climate emergency NOW. We are actively hurting our future by continuing to emit carbon NOW. We already have a solution to that problem in the shape of nuclear power.

Instead, we wait on renewables and storage to run the grid at some indeterminate point in the future.

The debate on this issue really is toxic and frustrating. We need all solutions working NOW, not tomorrow, and one of those solutions is widespread nuclear power.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#347

Post by phh »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #272
phh wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, as far as I know, that's forever been the case? Nuclear is too slow to react to events, so we always need some safety margin that gas can provide?

France's issues with nuclear are long lasting. They are running only 24 out of 56 power plants today and a lot of that outage is ongoing for many months. France is a net importer for almost a year I believe which is untypical for the country which normally exports cheap nuclear electricity.

Yes, France's current situation fucking sucks. However my answer was for this message:

> Right now gas plants are running to stabilize the grid in France...

As far as I know, gas plants have always been used to stabilize grid in France.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#348

Post by fyvhbhn »

someguydave wrote: post #288
fyvhbhn wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Large scale nuclear power with current tech isn't feasible, because of the lack of good uranium sources

This is an insane take, there is plenty of uranium globally. Whoever says otherwise is lying.

There may be plenty of uranium. However there isn't plenty available for easy extraction.

"Is nuclear energy green" Sabine Hossenfelder

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#349

Post by dontlaugh »

mschuster91 wrote: post #253
tjansen wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because nuclear does not make sense. Assuming your three points would be solved, would you be in favour of nuclear power plants? Or what exactly would need to change?

I would of course not be in favor of nuclear power. A new nuclear plant takes well over a decade to build - it makes way more economical sense to build renewable power plants because they can be ready far faster and pose less danger and waste to our children.

I was with you until here.

The waste was never the main problem and contemporary nuclear power plant designs don't share many of the other downsides either.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#350

Post by krisoft »

simiones wrote: post #305
mijamo wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Air drying clothes indoor is pretty bad. It is slow, takes space, and leaves textile in a bad state (at least for cotton and wool). Drying outside is good but not possible everywhere and not always. Also things like sheets and towels really should not be left to dry indoor.

It greatly depends on where you live, and season. In my apartment in Bucharest, especially during the summer, clothes dry indoors in ~4h, and a bed sheet takes maybe 6h. In the winter, the time is usually double. Still, drying clothes indoors has no ill effects, I have no idea where you got this. It's definitely better than exposing them to high temperatures like in most apartment tumble driers.

> during the summer, clothes dry indoors in ~4h, > drying clothes indoors has no ill effects

Maybe the first is why you think the second is always true? Where I live if I just leave laundry on a drying rack it won't dry for days, and once it is dryish it already smells stale and mouldy.

I'm glad that it works for you, but maybe the advice differs based on location, climate, maybe even architectural choices.

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