Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Disruptive children are caused by parents who frankly just don’t give a shit. Throwing more money into schools won’t ever fix this problem. I was a disruptive child and my parents were the opposite of people who didn’t give a shit. Both of them highly valued education and spent plenty of time with me. they just had to contend with a child who wasn’t well behaved at school and it was genetics more than anything they…
I thought it was well known that disruptive kids are often unrecognised creative/smart kids who are challenging the authority/leadership of the teacher. There has been some research on this in the UK, look into some of the work by David Price around creative test answers.
Nobody wants to teach anymore
341–350 of 1001 posts
Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore
#342A few random thoughts: 1. For as much as we spend on education, teachers seem to be grossly underpaid - to be getting robbed of their share of the budget. Where does that money go? 2. It seems that education degrees are seen as easier to achieve than others. 3. Teachers frequently complain about how they are unappreciated, yet children spend _12 years_ in their care. Why do people come up to them and say they hated s…
> 1. For as much as we spend on education, teachers seem to be grossly underpaid - to be getting robbed of their share of the budget. Where does that money go? Counterpoint: teachers' pay is great, it's just backloaded in pension plans. > 2. It seems that education degrees are seen as easier to achieve than others. Yeah, but cost is the same and cost is what's important. > 4. Many school problems are caused by disrup…
Nonsense. Even the most basic look at the numbers shows you this is absolutely false.
Let's take a rich liberal state first. MA. Average teacher salary: $60k. Average pension $43k. Teachers contribute 9.78% of their salary in order to get this pension! The state contributes 18.17% This is not all that different from a 401k.
You're confusing teachers with police officers, where the average pension is twice as high.
> Why didn't I end up in teaching? The licensing requirements in Minnesota are insane. Counselor's straight up told me I'd have to borrow ~$50k from the UMN for a MS in Curriculum and Instruction before I could teach.
Then you got terrible advice.
Because the licensing requirements in Minnesota are very lax: https://mn.gov/pelsb/aspiring-educators/portfolio/
You take two tests and fill out some forms. You don't even need a Master's in education.
They should really tighten that up. btw, you can definitely do that MS for <$20k online.
Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore
#343Earlier quoted context omitted.
>For comparison - we currently pay more per year to keep our 1 year old child in daycare (roughly ~15,000/yr) and for daycare we literally only expect them to keep him alive & clean You cannot compare the per child costs of taking care of a kid who cannot go to the toilet themselves or eat by themself with a kid who is much more self sufficient. The person taking care of a baby (or 4 babies) might need to be much les…
I think comparing the costs between the 5 year olds in our daycare and the 6 year olds entering first grade is entirely fair. Our daycare gets more expensive as the child ages - not less. > The person taking care of a baby (or 4 babies) might need to be much less qualified than an AP physics teacher in high school, but the labor (and liability) costs do not necessarily scale exactly with the minimum qualifications ne…
I have shopped around daycares on east and west coast, and I have never encountered this type of pricing. Infants have always been more expensive than toddlers and pre K in at least 10 to 15 daycares I have priced.
I also do not see the purpose of comparing prices for different prices of labor for justifying the prices.
Physics teachers may very well need to be paid more to attract enough people to meet the desired teacher student ratios and quality of teacher , but it has nothing to do with how much daycare teachers are paid. It just depends on supply and demand of that particular type of labor or service, hence the futility of comparing per student costs of daycare and high schools.
Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore
#344A few random thoughts: 1. For as much as we spend on education, teachers seem to be grossly underpaid - to be getting robbed of their share of the budget. Where does that money go? 2. It seems that education degrees are seen as easier to achieve than others. 3. Teachers frequently complain about how they are unappreciated, yet children spend _12 years_ in their care. Why do people come up to them and say they hated s…
Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore
#345Earlier quoted context omitted.
What would "social justice math" look like? Serious question, I can't even imagine. Here in Europe math education hasn't changed a ton in the past decades at all.
The rallying cry seems to be that "2+2=4 is racist". Expanded a bit, it seems to be that insisting that some answers are "wrong" disregards students' differing backgrounds and diverse avenues to solve problems.
Source? This is such a wild claim it has to be made up. A cursory google search brings this article: https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/teaching-math-throu...
Which is distilled down to "teachers teach math in a way that is topical to the current environment, such as BLM protests which is really nothing new. You might disagree with it, sure, but to say that this is "the wokes" teaching 2+2=fish, that's frankly ridiculous.
In fact, the only thing I can find reporting on "2+2=racist" is this Washington Examiner article deriding a math teacher from NYC for her tweets (article here: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/math-professor-claim...) which sounds _awful_ but it's a single person tweeting, and it seems to be in relation to using "math is pure and objective so it always must be neutral" as a defense for situations where data/statistics/algorithms presented show a clear bias. Which I think generally is an agreed upon phenomenon-- depending on the sampling and interpretation of the data, folks can come to _wildly_ different conclusions, especially if data was accidentally omitted.
Best example of this phenomenon is facial recognition software, which can perform very badly when deviating from the sample data. https://www.nist.gov/news-events/news/2019/12/nist-study-eva...
> For one-to-one matching, the team saw higher rates of false positives for Asian and African American faces relative to images of Caucasians. The differentials often ranged from a factor of 10 to 100 times, depending on the individual algorithm. False positives might present a security concern to the system owner, as they may allow access to impostors.
...
> However, a notable exception was for some algorithms developed in Asian countries. There was no such dramatic difference in false positives in one-to-one matching between Asian and Caucasian faces for algorithms developed in Asia. While Grother reiterated that the NIST study does not explore the relationship between cause and effect, one possible connection, and area for research, is the relationship between an algorithm’s performance and the data used to train it. “These results are an encouraging sign that more diverse training data may produce more equitable outcomes, should it be possible for developers to use such data,” he said.
All the other sources I found on google were either think tanks, facebook posts, or spam sites.
ETA: even in the most pessimistic reading of those tweets, I'm personally hard pressed to find that one person tweeting means that all math teachers everywhere are trying to take math down to "2+2=racist"
Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore
#346The very same problem exists in other countries. We have been having an outrageously similar situation in France for years already, so much that this article does a really good job at depainting the situation here in France too.
Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore
#347A few random thoughts: 1. For as much as we spend on education, teachers seem to be grossly underpaid - to be getting robbed of their share of the budget. Where does that money go? 2. It seems that education degrees are seen as easier to achieve than others. 3. Teachers frequently complain about how they are unappreciated, yet children spend _12 years_ in their care. Why do people come up to them and say they hated s…
> 2. It seems that education degrees are seen as easier to achieve than others. Here is the problem. Teachers in America compare themselves to professionals, but their test scores are below the average for college educated people generally: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brown-center-chalkboard/2017/... . Now 40% of college graduates don’t even get a job that requires a college degree. Disproportionately, those are p…
That said: practically every college student knows that the Education majors are the dumbest people on campus.
Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore
#348One thing I wonder is if teachers are in such high demand, why do they put up with crap from their administrators and politicians saying that this is what they have to teach and how they have to teach it. Why don’t they just teach whatever they want to teach and do it however they want to do it? The worst that can happen is they will be fired, but they can probably find a new teaching position easily since there is s…
- They legitimately love their jobs and the kids.
- If they quit/are fired, and have to find a new job that may reset their steps (i.e. they take a pay cut, but not just for one year but for their career). Inter-district transfers can be blocked or have the same problems at the receiving school.
Plus there are some fields that are more in-demand than others (e.g. maths/science Vs. art/social studies).
Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore
#349Earlier quoted context omitted.
Starting salaries for many districts for jobs that require a masters is pathetic. Many suburban schools pay decent, but often urban centers pay poorly. I know one person who was offered under $30k for teaching young special Ed folks. This is someone who has a masters and extra certs on tops of that. Your argument about physics teachers being more sought after is interesting but misses the point. As a society we want…
Nobody is ever paid for the value that they create. Software engineers are estimated to be worth several million dollars per year in value. Also, the average kindergarten teacher probably generates a lot less than $300k per year.
If a software engineer is contributing millions of dollars in value each year, they are doing it on the backs of the giants that taught and coached them to get to where they are today.
Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore
#350The fundamental problem is one of teacher education and an understanding of what it means to impart knowledge. Nobody knows anything about this anymore, certainly not even edu psychologists (50% of their papers are statistically invalid, the other 50% are too lab-centric to have any classroom value).
A good solution is to produce a highly-paid, highly-autonomous batch of properly-trained and highly-educated teachers who should have the biggest say in how they do their job--don't do that and pretty soon you won't have an educated class.