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We're going to need a lot of solar panels

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Re: We're going to need a lot of solar panels

#341

Post by ttyyzz »

pfdietz wrote: post #270
manmal wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep reading that H2 storage is difficult, lossy, and dangerous. H2 gas stations have blown up every now and then. Has that changed?

Hydrogen can be stored underground (and is), just like natural gas. This is much cheaper per unit energy storage capacity than storing energy in batteries.

there is a short term battery based storage but the long term storage for the winter months is the h2 storage. I think the system is very expensive but a cool prove of concept and for sure a step in the right direction.

Re: We're going to need a lot of solar panels

#342

Post by cycomanic »

WalterBright wrote: post #147
adaml_623 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The good news is that humanity has saved up a few trillion for emergencies. The bad news is that it's been saved up and hidden in tax havens. Pity

High taxes always drive capital away into unproductive tax havens. Reagan's achievement was to eliminate tax shelters in exchange for lower tax rates. This pulled the investment out of those unproductive shelters into productive activities, leading to the prosperity of the 80s.

> High taxes always drive capital away into unproductive tax havens.

Citation needed. Show me data that demonstrates that use of tax havens is correlated to tax rates. The data over the last 30-40 years at least at first glance seems to disagree. Tax rates (in particular top income bracket, capital gains and corporate taxes) have continously reduced, while the amount of money in tax havens has increased.

Re: We're going to need a lot of solar panels

#343

Post by coob »

tsimionescu wrote: post #299
pydry wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess this means if a hypothetical Bill Gates sold off the vast majority of the 45% of Microsoft stock he owned then the company would then be worth a lot less? It really is weird how frequently I see the view you espouse and how nobody who repeats it seems to consider the clearest, most obvious counterexample that so completely disproves it.

So you think that Microsoft stock price wouldn't go down significantly if Bill Gates put 45% of the company up for sale?

He sold most of his MSFT in 2020 when stepping down from the board.

Re: We're going to need a lot of solar panels

#344

Post by NavinF »

zbrozek wrote: post #319
NavinF wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can confirm. Rates are 64% higher than the US average and 100% higher than a lot of states. I wonder what they do with all this money.

US average kWh is 14.77 cents while PG&E TOU-C starts at 37.460 and goes up to 48.902. So it's worse than you list. https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph... https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHED...

Oh wow. Of course I can’t login to PG&E and confirm that because “Your Account is currently unavailable due to planned maintenance”. Bunch of thieves.

Edit:

$385.06/1033kW = $0.37/kWh

A couple of servers really screws over the electric bill.

Re: We're going to need a lot of solar panels

#345

Post by AtlasBarfed »

pfdietz wrote: post #268
walrus01 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With bulk PV panels by the pallet already at something like $0.42 per STC watt the majority of a residential or small commercial install is already dominated by the cost of labor and other components. I could theoretically go out and buy a pallet load of twenty, 360W rated, 72 cell panels at something like $160 per piece, costing something like $3,200 + $400 LTL freight. But it's going to cost way more than that to p…

A world powered by PV will be mostly powered by larger scale ground mounted PV, not by PV on the roofs of homes and businesses.

But roof PV makes the grid more resilient, requires less grid, and the owners more independent. A huge portion of consumer electricity could be served with rooftop. It should scale with hot sunny days for A/C surges. It may be key to not overloading the grid with true mass market BEV adoption.

And the article seems to miss that wind is still beating solar from the LCOE charts I've seen. They keep making the towers taller and taller for better economies of scale.

Re: We're going to need a lot of solar panels

#346

Post by dvh »

dmitriid wrote: post #339
jnsaff2 wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all due respect, looking at your numbers my hunch is that you need better insulation. I know a person who has about 10kWp installed on a passivhaus here in latitude 59N and says that having a heat pump is overkill for them.

> With all due respect, looking at your numbers my hunch is that you need better insulation. With all due respect these are the kinds of "tiny" details that renewable enthusiasts conveniently forget. Yes, this person's house needs better insulation. As does everybody else's . You can't just wave this away with "your math is wrong". These numbers reflect reality, not wishful thinking.

In a worst case scenario (no gas, no grid electricity), he could heat only one room instead of entire house.

Re: We're going to need a lot of solar panels

#347

Post by jnsaff2 »

dmitriid wrote: post #339
jnsaff2 wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all due respect, looking at your numbers my hunch is that you need better insulation. I know a person who has about 10kWp installed on a passivhaus here in latitude 59N and says that having a heat pump is overkill for them.

> With all due respect, looking at your numbers my hunch is that you need better insulation. With all due respect these are the kinds of "tiny" details that renewable enthusiasts conveniently forget. Yes, this person's house needs better insulation. As does everybody else's . You can't just wave this away with "your math is wrong". These numbers reflect reality, not wishful thinking.

I wish you would expand and clarify the point you are trying to make. Currently it sounds like you are angry at a group of enthusiasts.

I think for me and the OP it’s quite clear that optimizations can be made on production and consumption side. And in their circumstances financial reality says that increasing production is much cheaper, while possibly providing extra cash that would enable investment for reducing consumption, which in turn would lead to more income.

Re: We're going to need a lot of solar panels

#348

Post by cycomanic »

tren wrote: post #154
bigcat12345678 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

""" The AAPowerLink is being developed by the Singaporean firm Sun Cable and is projected to begin construction in mid-2023 """ Being developed

I think it has a good chance of happening with Mike-cannon Brookes and Andrew Forrest pushing it along. I hope it's better protected than the internet subsea cables, those things get cut about once per year.

Cut internet cables is just a matter of statistics, there are simply a lot of these cables so a even individually rare events happen relatively often. Submarine fibre cables already carry significant electrical power for the amplifiers and are well armored, I doubt that elictricity cables would be much better. The issue is typically ships ignoring no-anchor areas, that's also why most of these cuts happen in more unregulated regions.

Re: We're going to need a lot of solar panels

#349

Post by isoprophlex »

Helmut10001 wrote: post #320

People both underestimate and overestimate what PV can do. In summer and around noon, here in western Europe, there is so much PV-electricity produced that it is _almost_ enough to fulfill all demands. In winter, the amount is like a drop in the desert. I have built a 30 kWp PV at home 2 years ago - you would think this is quite big, for a private plant. It is not enough. If I want to power a heat pump (with drilled…

The catch is that power-to-gas tech described in the article will allow you to store the power produced in summer.

Produce excess methane gas in summer, store with existing infrastructure, burn it for baseload/winter.

Re: We're going to need a lot of solar panels

#350

Post by Helmut10001 »

jnsaff2 wrote: post #347
dmitriid wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With all due respect, looking at your numbers my hunch is that you need better insulation. With all due respect these are the kinds of "tiny" details that renewable enthusiasts conveniently forget. Yes, this person's house needs better insulation. As does everybody else's . You can't just wave this away with "your math is wrong". These numbers reflect reality, not wishful thinking.

I wish you would expand and clarify the point you are trying to make. Currently it sounds like you are angry at a group of enthusiasts. I think for me and the OP it’s quite clear that optimizations can be made on production and consumption side. And in their circumstances financial reality says that increasing production is much cheaper, while possibly providing extra cash that would enable investment for reducing co…

Thanks for the nice summary! I couldn't phrase it better.
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