Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes • Hacker News Board

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#341

Post by olivermarks » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:23 PM UTC

Talk to any racing driver and they will spell out the importance of seatbelts for safety and to maintain control position. For many years there were TV spots explaining why you wouldn't be disfigured if you wore one. In modern cars those films could play repeatedly on the dashboard if you failed to buckle up or sat on top of the buckled belt.

Once people understand why something is essential they will do it, but we have to keep fresh generations of drivers informed and involved imo.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#342

Post by gffrd » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:23 PM UTC

admax88qqq wrote: post #272

CodeAndCuffs wrote: post #155

I was a cop for several years. I worked hundreds of crashes, and a few fatalities. If cars had a max speed limit of 85 mph, and required the seatbelt to be engaged to work, we'd cut our fatality rate in half. Most nations' DUI laws consider a 0.05 BAC as illegal. In most US states 0.08 is presumed under the influence, 0.06 - 0.079 is considered no presumption either way, and under .06 is considered not under the infl…

> Something like 80% of fatal crashes involve either alcohol, no seatbelt, or excessive speed This is the crux of the issue on why we as a society ignore car crashes and panic about train/plane crashes. I'd wager it mostly comes down to filtering out things we feel we have control over stressing about those we don't.

Like sharks: so few fatal interactions, but so much large-scale hand-wringing about shark attacks.

I'd double-down on that same wager …

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#343

Post by avianlyric » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:24 PM UTC

intrasight wrote: post #299

We don't ignore them - we just accept that risk Data: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_safety#Statistics 0.00000003% chance of dying if you drive a kilometer to the yoga studio. Want to make it less risky personally? Drive less, or drive a safer car. https://www.iihs.org/ratings/top-safety-picks

What about all the pedestrians that are killed by vehicles (which is rapidly trending up)? Do just have accept that even those that don’t benefit from car must still suffer the consequences of cars?

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#344

Post by lsh123 » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:25 PM UTC

namesbc wrote: post #314

CodeAndCuffs wrote: post #155

I was a cop for several years. I worked hundreds of crashes, and a few fatalities. If cars had a max speed limit of 85 mph, and required the seatbelt to be engaged to work, we'd cut our fatality rate in half. Most nations' DUI laws consider a 0.05 BAC as illegal. In most US states 0.08 is presumed under the influence, 0.06 - 0.079 is considered no presumption either way, and under .06 is considered not under the infl…

Cars should have a regulator installed by the manufacturer to limit speed to 20mph on roads with people, and to 60mph on grade separated highways. This maximum would barely change your time to destination, but it would save thousands of lives per year. - 20mph: 90% survival rate - 30mph: 60% survival rate - 40mph: 20% survival rate https://www.betterstreetschicago.org/blog/chicago-speed-came...

Staying home on the couch: 100% survival rate

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#345

Post by scoopertrooper » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:25 PM UTC

goatcode wrote: post #288

scoopertrooper wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Few other behaviors associated with increase mortality can also turn you into a missile. https://youtu.be/bdW_3oQFO0c?t=42

Be that as it may, that wasn't the point I was replying to.

Is not missiling into another person a form of externality?

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#346

Post by Blackthorn » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:25 PM UTC

While in retrospect The Dark Knight was almost comically heavy handed and clumsy, the Joker's speech about "the plan" was pretty solid and holds up.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#347

Post by WalterBright » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:25 PM UTC

avianlyric wrote: post #329

WalterBright wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a right to be stupid, even if it results in your death. > I'd assume having a seatbelt on as a driver significantly increases your ability to maintain at least some control of a vehicle in a collision Not a chance. The g forces are tremendous, and you're just along for the ride in a collision. In my major accident, I had a lap belt on, but my arms and legs and torso flung about totally out of my control.

Seatbelts also protect other car occupants. When your car goes from 80mph to 0mph, if you’re not wearing a seatbelt, you become a 80kg, 80mph meat missile bouncing around the car. If someone else happens to be in that car with you. Then it very likely you’re gonna kill them. If multiple people are not wearing a seatbelt, then the problems only escalates from there. Sitting in the back doesn’t changes the dynamics muc…

I'm aware of that, and when I drive I require that all my passengers buckle up.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#348

Post by Ottolay » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:26 PM UTC

On a personal level, this reminds me of a concept called normalization of deviance. [1]

Every time we do something which we know may be risky, but we do not have a catastrophic result, we further reduce the perceived risk that the catastrophic result will occur to us.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normalization_of_deviance

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#349

Post by scrumbledober » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:26 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #277

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a little uncharitable: If even a handful of people (regardless of location) are harmed by causes that we don't accept as normal, those are tragedies and we'll broadcast news about that tragedy 24/7 and use enormous institutions to move heaven and earth to eliminate that harm. If thousands of people are harmed by causes that we do accept, that's life as usual. That might be obvious, but it bears some th…

> ethics and justifications of military recruitment Putin's War shows what happens when you don't have a strong military.

it shows what happens when you don't have a strong military and try to invade a neighbor...

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#350

Post by zip1234 » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:27 PM UTC

clairity wrote: post #274

rustybelt wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you arguing that drivers don't have any control over their level of risk on the road? Sure they can't eliminate 100% of risk, but not speeding and not driving drunk absolutely influences a driver's likelihood of being in an accident.

no, speeding hardly changes risk at all, but reckless driving certainly can, but that’s beside the point. the point is that changing your own behavior (i.e., “control”) has a negligible marginal effect on reducing your overall risk. nearly all of the practical risk is external and therefore out of your control (unless you manufacture additional risk by being distracted, reckless, and/or impaired). you can’t really lo…

Speeding doesn't change risk? When 'speed was not a factor' in a crash, it just means that the involved drivers were not driving above the post speed limit. It doesn't mean that the drivers were driving a safe speed. In fact, clearly they were not.