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Andrej Karpathy leaves Tesla

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Re: Andrej Karpathy leaves Tesla

#341

Post by formerkrogemp »

zarzavat wrote: post #337
justapassenger wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s naive to call yourself beta tester. People who have access to beta are basically just a part of PR exercise by Tesla, that tries to hide lack of meaningful progress towards multiple missed deadlines. You aren’t beta testing complex automation system that’s operating on public roads. To do any meaningful testing you should have defined operation domain, specific behaviors to test, direct line to the engineering t…

You're thinking of QA testing. Beta testing is the final stage of testing before release and aims to test the system in as close as realistic environment as possible - that's why betas are often seeded to the general public, you want to find out if your system doesn't work on some configuration or circumstances that you didn't anticipate in internal testing. Better to have it fail for a limited number of users who si…

> You're thinking of QA testing. Beta testing is the final stage of testing before release and aims to test the system in as close as realistic environment as possible - that's why betas are often seeded to the general public, you want to find out if your system doesn't work on some configuration or circumstances that you didn't anticipate in internal testing.

I'm thinking of being an unwitting test crash dummy on public roads and sidewalks for "Full Self Driving". They just slap the binding legal agreements and waivers on their drivers, but it is tantamount to fraud. I'd rather this didn't exist on public roads in such numbers, and that people don't have to pay to be free Tesla drivers, beta testers, and data points instead of being considered people.

Re: Andrej Karpathy leaves Tesla

#342

Post by carbadtraingood »

nunez wrote: post #331
carbadtraingood wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cars are real but they are... Mediocre. The first year of ownership is an amazing honeymoon period, assuming you got one with decent build quality. But the parts are cheap, and they break quickly. I've had one for 5+ years and it's gradually become something I prefer driving less and less.

speak for yourself i friggin love our model 3. two years and almost 60,000 miles in! i want to get the model s refresh and be a two tesla household, but my pay needs to go up a little :)

That was me two years in. Check back in another four.

Re: Andrej Karpathy leaves Tesla

#343

Post by visarga »

throwawayarnty wrote: post #326

Even if FSD doesn’t work out Andrej still has an impressive achievement for 5 years. I’m not sure if many people 5 years out of their PhD can say they did anything close to what Andrej did.

I wouldn't have dared to step into his role even if I had the chops. Takes real courage to do self driving where a mistake can cost human life. In my line of work a prediction mistake costs 1 minute of extra manual work.

Re: Andrej Karpathy leaves Tesla

#344

Post by 01100011 »

paulmendoza wrote: post #339
01100011 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't Tesla supposed to be producing Optimus, their human-like android, next year? Elon has been over-promising(i.e. flat out lying) about self-driving every year since.. 2014(there's a youtube video compilation of it)? It seems like his strategy is to just come up with increasingly grandiose promises every year when he fails to deliver on his past promises. He's trapped in his swirling vortex of bullshit. Very worry…

Elon said they might have a prototype in 2022. He didn’t give any other timelines.

He said production ready by 2023. Read my other reply to a sibling post which already made the same claim you did.

Re: Andrej Karpathy leaves Tesla

#345

Post by theluketaylor »

bambax wrote: post #281
Animats wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waymo and Cruise routinely have driverless cars on city streets. In California, all collisions, however minor, have to be reported, and DMV posts them on their web site.[1] Most are very minor. Here's a more serious one from last month: " A Cruise autonomous vehicle ("Cruise AV") operating in driverless autonomous mode, was traveling eastbound on Geary Boulevard toward the intersection with Spruce Street. As it appro…

> This is the real version of the trolley problem An autonomous vehicle has to protect its occupants at the expense of everything else (or, at the very least, appear to do so in a convincing manner), because otherwise no one will step inside. (At the very least, if a machine is going to sacrifice me or my family to save a third party, I need to know what hierarchy it is following, and how it was decided and by whom.)…

Totally agree; beginner and truly dangerous drivers share a quality: unpredictability. Even the most aggressive, fast drivers can easily be accounted for when defensive driving. Unpredictable drivers are how collisions happen when speed and weather are not factors.

Even the simple automatic emergency braking features in my model 3 result in some dangerously unpredictable behaviour at times. I have them set as off and insensitive as possible and they still do some awful stuff from time to time. I was on a road trip in northern Ontario this week passing a service vehicle moving very slowly along the shoulder on the right. I was doing 105 km/hr in the right lane of a 3 lane road: 2 lanes in my direction and 1 opposing. The 2nd lane switches directions every 5-10 km to serve as a passing zone. Posted speed limit is 80 km/hr, but prevailing speeds on this road are 90-110 and you’d never be ticketed for anything under 110 in this region. There was a truck gaining on me coming up on the left, so I signalled left and partially moved over to give the service vehicle some room, but didn’t fully take the left lane to let the faster truck know I would let them through as they came past. Very common pattern on this type of road and circumstance. The AEB slammed on the brakes as I came level with the service vehicle despite the fact there was plenty of space to complete the pass. I wasn’t expecting my car to slow down let alone apply emergency braking force, so in my surprise I nearly collided with the service vehicle. I have no idea what the other drivers thought, but neither of them could have possibly been predicting or expecting me to slam on the brakes. I was really upset with the car since it took a highly dangerous action in an otherwise perfectly safe and common situation. And that was the automatic stuff that can’t be turned off; I don’t let autopilot drive ever because it is the worst type of driver: unpredictable. The choices it made in the extremely short time I tested it about lane placement, follow distance, defensive driving (and the complete lack thereof), and general behavioural clues provided to other drivers were genuinely terrifying.

Re: Andrej Karpathy leaves Tesla

#346

Post by theluketaylor »

ryantgtg wrote: post #211
Animats wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waymo and Cruise routinely have driverless cars on city streets. In California, all collisions, however minor, have to be reported, and DMV posts them on their web site.[1] Most are very minor. Here's a more serious one from last month: " A Cruise autonomous vehicle ("Cruise AV") operating in driverless autonomous mode, was traveling eastbound on Geary Boulevard toward the intersection with Spruce Street. As it appro…

> In California, all collisions, however minor, have to be reported. Just to be clear, this statement only applies to AVs, right?

Yes, this applies to autonomous vehicles being tested in the state. Tesla skirts this rule by reporting their system (including the supposedly ‘Full Self-Driving’ beta) as level 2 driver assistance features. That marks them out of scope for the regulation of reporting collisions (and crucially system disconnections).

Re: Andrej Karpathy leaves Tesla

#347

Post by uoaei »

dekhn wrote: post #159
dibujante wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

7. Need to understand that drunk person staggering along the roadside has been repeatedly slipping off the sidewalk and there's a non-zero chance they trip and fall right in front of you.

This is a dance move known as the "tenderloin lurch". Well, not really, the Tenderloin Lurch is when a person staggers up to a crosswalk, waits until they have a NO WALK sign and proceeds to cross, while ignoring all the drivers who about to run them over.

I sincerely hope you are not this unpleasant in social settings.

Re: Andrej Karpathy leaves Tesla

#348

Post by kaba0 »

elif wrote: post #289
codechicago277 wrote: post #3

Tesla has bet the company on robotaxis, but their vision only tech stack doesn’t seem capable of solving it, which is a problem because Tesla has repeatedly promised FSD is right around the corner, or less than a year away. It’s hard to believe Karpathy would step down if he felt they were close to solving the problem anytime soon. This announcement comes after a 4 month sabbatical where Karpathy said he wanted to ta…

FSD beta tester here. I think they are minimum 3 years away from anything exciting beta.. but the localization, mapping, and visualization are not the reason. I don't think LIDAR would contribute substantially to improvement. The fundamental flaws are in the decision-making being based upon 10-30 second feature memory, ignoring features outright, and only depending on visible road features instead of persisted map da…

That’s not 3 years away, it’s lacking fundamental knowledge of the world, which might require GAI to begin with. It is just shitty drive assist features sold as much more.

Re: Andrej Karpathy leaves Tesla

#349

Post by theluketaylor »

bhauer wrote: post #156
ifaxmycodetok8s wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> focus on their incredible cars They have terrible manufacturing quality. The screens melt in Arizona heat. Maybe the ride is cool and feels good, but the car itself is not incredible.

> The screens melt in Arizona heat. That's a very old talking point about the original Model S screens from ~2012. Do you have any recent justification for this claim?

How many other cars do you know that turn their A/C on while stationary for ‘cabin overheat protection’? My 2021 model 3 did that this week while sitting in the sun in northern Ontario and was helpful enough to send a push notification to let me know.

This is not to helpfully make sure the driver gets into a nice cool car when they finish their errand. It’s because the non-automotive grade screen isn’t rated or tested above 40C and were failing in heat. Rather than upgrade the part and do a recall Tesla opted to just use battery to keep the cabin below 40-45C.

I love EVs, but that’s some pretty dodgy behaviour.

Re: Andrej Karpathy leaves Tesla

#350

Post by harles »

pilaf wrote: post #290
harles wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monocular vision only seems pretty clearly not capable of solving the problem. Stereo/multi view systems have a shot (humans are proof), but Tesla bet against that long ago. I wonder what could’ve been in a proper multi view setup.

Humans are perfectly capable of driving on racing simulators using a flat screen though, where binocular vision makes no difference. And Tesla cars have more than one camera on them. The front-facing camera is actually an array of 3 cameras (the two farthest ones are at about human eyes distance), but they're also equipped with forward and rearward looking side cameras, and back cameras. I think Tesla underestimated…

Driving simulators are a bad example. It’s too easy to learn priors. A better analogy is humans with one eye that still drive - most are taught to induce parallax.

Also, I never said they have one camera. Multi camera != multi view.

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