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EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

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Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#341

Post by ajb »

lamontcg wrote: post #323
Mizza wrote: post #172

Isn't this an insanely stupid idea? Doesn't it open the door to a new type of ransomware - pay up, or we'll flood your devices with CSAM and submit a tip about it?

I keep posting this objection on every single one of these articles. It is weird how supposedly techno-savvy people can't spot how easy this would be. But I'd think it would look more like an alternative to murder-for-hire when ruining someone else's life and throwing them in jail would be sufficient. Get someone else to pay reasonably big money to actually do it and not just threaten it. This may have happened alrea…

Well yes, that's what I though 20 years ago. But I've never seen a report of actual framing of someone via CSAM. gung-ho police mistaking innocent nude kid pics, yes. Criminalisation of sexting by teenagers, yes. But framing? Haven't seen it reported.

There are two reasons I guess. One is that pedophilia is the epitome of evil in our society and even career criminals would find handling CSAM off putting and risky.

The second is that if you can hack someone, there's easier ways of taking their money. Stealing their credit cards being the obvious one. Money motivated criminals always go by the easiest route.

That doesn't rule it out. If we get an uptick in cyberwarfare, I wouldn't be surprised to see this tried, because 'authority says its okay to do this' is an effective

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#342

Post by dodobirdlord »

kevincox wrote: post #247
kayodelycaon wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then encryption becomes evidence of guilt, unless you give up the key so they can search it to make sure you're not guilty.

This is not how it works at least in Canada and the US. Until they can read the password out of our minds (or at least prove that we have it) we don't need to give up the key.

I can't speak for Canada, but in the US if a court issues a search warrant for data stored on one of your devices you are obligated to take whatever steps are necessary to turn over the data, including decrypting the data if applicable. This power is provided to the government by the 4th Amendment. What you are likely referring to is the 5th Amendment right that protects a person from being compelled to testify against themselves, which protects a person from being compelled to turn over a password if doing so would incriminate them, but this is only applicable in circumstances where turning over the password would incriminate you, not where the decryption of the data would incriminate you. This is applicable only in circumstances where it is uncertain whether you have access to the device in question, since compelling you to produce the password amounts to compelling you to admit that it is your device. Once a court is satisfied that it is beyond doubt that the device is yours and you know the password, a judge is free to compel you to provide the password.

There's a further consideration of whether you can refuse if the literal string of the password itself would incriminate you, but I don't believe that has been conclusively litigated.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#343

Post by insta_anon »

Anyone who thinks that this is really about protecting children should look into how the catholic church, who has a long long [0] history of abusing children in Europe, is treated. If governments wanted to fight child abuse they could easily start there.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_c...

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#344

Post by [deleted] »

insta_anon wrote: post #343

Anyone who thinks that this is really about protecting children should look into how the catholic church, who has a long long [0] history of abusing children in Europe, is treated. If governments wanted to fight child abuse they could easily start there. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_c...

[deleted]

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#345

Post by minton »

MerelyMortal wrote: post #300
pc86 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easy, then we'll just add additional tracking to everyone's personal devices that tells the government what is on your screen and for how long. For the children, of course! /s

We already have TVs that are content aware, and Macs that report CSAM, it won't be long until the two are merged together. Anyone who wants a dumb TV or an offline computer must be a pedophile. /s

I don’t think Macs have any built in ability to report CSAM.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#347

Post by insta_anon »

tluyben2 wrote: post #146
op00to wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, here's what will really happen: 5:30am, loud knock at the door. You open the door a crack to see who it is. Cops bust in. You're immediately handcuffed and sat outside. Cops take anything with a screen, usb plug, etc. All your media. All your computers. All your external hard drives. Every one of these devices will be imaged, and archived prior to being searched. The data will be kept for years, to pro…

That won’t happen here but sure, US type of police overreach makes a better soundbite with horribly vague proposals like this. And people should be scared so I guess it’s good; maybe they will protest (probably not though because the children the children).

I accidentally (e.g. I didn't know) bought a stolen laptop some time ago. The police came at 05:00am, raided my home with guns drawn and took the laptop. So yes, it does happen in Europe as well.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#348

Post by GekkePrutser »

Tade0 wrote: post #22
goodpoint wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cars can kill people. Should we ban those? In dense cities: yes.

I would rather ban (too) dense cities. Nobody needs to live at a density of 10k+ people per square kilometre .

Uhm maybe we want to?

Not everyone likes rural life. And people in cities use public transport a lot. I don't even own a car myself anymore and haven't driven one in years.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#349

Post by insta_anon »

ajb wrote: post #341
lamontcg wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep posting this objection on every single one of these articles. It is weird how supposedly techno-savvy people can't spot how easy this would be. But I'd think it would look more like an alternative to murder-for-hire when ruining someone else's life and throwing them in jail would be sufficient. Get someone else to pay reasonably big money to actually do it and not just threaten it. This may have happened alrea…

Well yes, that's what I though 20 years ago. But I've never seen a report of actual framing of someone via CSAM. gung-ho police mistaking innocent nude kid pics, yes. Criminalisation of sexting by teenagers, yes. But framing? Haven't seen it reported. There are two reasons I guess. One is that pedophilia is the epitome of evil in our society and even career criminals would find handling CSAM off putting and risky. Th…

> But I've never seen a report of actual framing of someone via CSAM

Here you go: https://www.spiegel.de/international/business/hamburg-bank-s...

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#350

Post by GekkePrutser »

minton wrote: post #345
MerelyMortal wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already have TVs that are content aware, and Macs that report CSAM, it won't be long until the two are merged together. Anyone who wants a dumb TV or an offline computer must be a pedophile. /s

I don’t think Macs have any built in ability to report CSAM.

Not yet no, because Apple postponed their plans. But it was planned along with the plans for iOS. The Mac was not going to be excluded.
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