Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

341–350 of 368 posts

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#341

Post by tasuki »

ramraj07 wrote: post #210
randomsearch wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you expand on the “for the outdoors” comment and explain why those people are self centred? Assuming this must be an American cultural thing

Until I went to Colorado my only experience with people “into the outdoors” was in Canada (many from France) and they were some of the nicest, most considerate people I’ve ever met. But whatever I saw in Colorado (and to an extent in San Diego) has led me to believe that people who do move to these places in the US tend to be self centered, just my observation. Probably merely a correlation with deeper connections th…

Or perhaps those were the people you just happened to meet? I had a colleague in Boulder Colorado, very much into the outdoors, a vegan without pushing it on anyone, helpful and humble.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#342

Post by laserlight »

emptysongglass wrote: post #320
heavenlyblue wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Almost no one would argue with them: no lying, cheating on your spouse, killing, etc. None of these are sins in their absolute sense though, and this is what I am underlining, that you can't possibly create absolutist ethics in any way. Philosophy had created a lot of points of view on this, but none of them managed to create a consistent worldview that would work for any occasion.

Absolute sense meaning what? When engaged with they cause suffering. If you turn your mind inward one sees engaging with these acts almost instantaneously harms the doer as the victim. This is not complicated. Trying to objectify these acts as anything but harmful is not helpful to you or anyone else. The next time you harm someone look closely at yourself first and observe the tumult of feelings that follow. Observi…

> Trying to objectify these acts as anything but harmful is not helpful to you or anyone else.

Is there any harm outside of the mind perceiving it? Can we talk about harm independent of causes and conditions? Could these actions be not harmful, or even skillful under certain conditions?

> The next time you harm someone look closely at yourself first and observe the tumult of feelings that follow.

What if there’s no tumult of feelings that follow?

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#343

Post by dalmo3 »

btheshoe wrote: post #147

any article based on a single study, especially when related to psychology or the social sciences, is more likely than not to be untrue. Worth taking this with study with a massive grain of salt. Replication crisis is real and most severe in this field.

It's 2022 and people are still doing "imagine you had $100" studies? And people still consider anything that comes out of this sort of study as evidence?

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#344

Post by [deleted] »

danielvaughn wrote: post #318
Melting_Harps wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having lived in Boulder CO for several years, which is basically the Mecca of Americanized mindfulness, I can attest that this is true. The most ardent practitioners that I met were invariably self obsessed. Over the years of living there I became even more intolerant with these people, I came from the Biodynamic Ag side of things so was pretty battle-hardened in the World of 'Becasue woo' to explain most things. B…

This comment was so cathartic to read lol. Yes it never even felt like a real town to me. It was like a playground for rich adults who want to look progressive and humble, but are fabulously well off. It's a beautiful, clean, crime free city and I hated it.

[deleted]

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#345

Post by Melting_Harps »

danielvaughn wrote: post #318
Melting_Harps wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having lived in Boulder CO for several years, which is basically the Mecca of Americanized mindfulness, I can attest that this is true. The most ardent practitioners that I met were invariably self obsessed. Over the years of living there I became even more intolerant with these people, I came from the Biodynamic Ag side of things so was pretty battle-hardened in the World of 'Becasue woo' to explain most things. B…

This comment was so cathartic to read lol. Yes it never even felt like a real town to me. It was like a playground for rich adults who want to look progressive and humble, but are fabulously well off. It's a beautiful, clean, crime free city and I hated it.

> It was like a playground for rich adults who want to look progressive and humble, but are fabulously well off

If they're from Boulder, it's just real-estate money; it wasn't anything based on merit, they just got in early.

> It's a beautiful, clean, crime free city and I hated it.

That is simply not the case, in fact this is one of the worst offending police states I have ever had the misfortune of having lived in. You want to see what makes people think Boulder is crime free, look at this case that had to be taken to the Supreme Court [0], because local courts allowed for the systematic abuse and torture of a woman who was supposed to be fined on Pearl Street Mall for just smoking.

It also is old and dirty place, I lived in an apartment that had to have all the asbestos removed in 2019! The town when left to it's own devices, as in devoid of it's massive underclass that keep it functional, descends into utter chaos: see CU Boulder riots in 2020.

It has a disgusting underbelly based fiefdom that is owned by Tebo and 5 families that all collude with each other; I used to feel bad for the people who tried to make a life their... but now I think they deserve what they get which is an over-priced, over-hyped Police State that has been over-populated to such an extent that it's nothing like when I first came and decided to move their (in my case 2007). Which is typical of most tech hubs.

This isn't nostalgia, so much it is a 'going clear,' I'm glad I got to live it in it's tech hey-day 2015-2020 as a founder, and still be able to live to tell about it (I used to go to the King Soopers on Table Mesa where that shooting took place) because from what I've seen COVID really left it's mark in a way that makes me ok with never going back.

I caught a guy trying to steal my catalytic convertor in April and ended up giving him the $10 I had in my pocket: the guy couldn't get food or a place to stay in town as it was over-filled with no where to go.

My friends still struggle to pay for rent on old over-valued apartment buildings to slumlords etc...

This is a town wherein it's 'legacy families' and Tebo own so much vacant land that they could have setup camps and shelters with minimal investment just to keep Pearl Street Mall from looking like a refugee camp and keep business going but did nothing instead. And this is the type of 'pride' this town has.

That Kool-aid is strong.

0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgbqOVtaDuk

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#346

Post by ThePrankster »

cutler wrote: post #338

There's one thing I don't get about mindful detachment and worldly renunciation - it denies the value of many of the world's greatest achievements and relegates genuine creative passion to mere ego. The western world was built by pioneers who followed their passion for grand projects. Like it or not we all depend on an increasingly sophisticated package of products and services just to lead a normal life. Those facil…

This comments shows a deep lack of cultural awareness. The East has created as much a legacy in terms of societal achievements as the West. All of that while being Buddhists, Taoists, Confucianists and Hindus.

This ethos to which you attribute the greatness of the West, in the 1500s was seen by the East as a barbaric, dirty way of life. Civilizations like those of the Middle East, China, and even the MesoAmericas were far more advanced in technological and societal arrangements than the “West” up until the 17th century.

Detachment proposed by Eastern traditions is not equal to “lack of emotional involvement”; rather it is the lack self-identification with the transient aspects of life. It’s the breaking of the illusion of that same ego that propelled many civilizations (Western and Eastern alike) to cause atrocities in name of a so-called progress, industrial achievements and sophisticated products.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#347

Post by cutler »

ThePrankster wrote: post #346
cutler wrote: post #338

There's one thing I don't get about mindful detachment and worldly renunciation - it denies the value of many of the world's greatest achievements and relegates genuine creative passion to mere ego. The western world was built by pioneers who followed their passion for grand projects. Like it or not we all depend on an increasingly sophisticated package of products and services just to lead a normal life. Those facil…

This comments shows a deep lack of cultural awareness. The East has created as much a legacy in terms of societal achievements as the West. All of that while being Buddhists, Taoists, Confucianists and Hindus. This ethos to which you attribute the greatness of the West, in the 1500s was seen by the East as a barbaric, dirty way of life. Civilizations like those of the Middle East, China, and even the MesoAmericas wer…

Maybe "western world" was an oversimplification but what I'm getting at is the contemplative, reclusive life is the privilege of a few. How can anyone retreat entirely, for example, if they have committed to a job and a family? Life is about activity. Without drive, passion and activity in the world we would be nowhere as a race. A little retreat from time to time is probably a good thing but as a life-path it can only be for the few and is therefore irrelevant to most of us. Listening to someone drone-on about their spiritual path is like watching paint dry. Give me a cricket match any day. That's my kinda Zen.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#348

Post by jamal-kumar »

serf wrote: post #69
_y5hn wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a petty concern for someone who visits world leaders and maintain international relations at that level. It could be a conversation-starter in more unofficial moments, for fun (spiritual people are allowed 1 teaspoon of fun each day!) or just being practical. These kinds of topics are unfortunately what the focus many will remain at.

>or just being practical generally speaking -- rolex collections don't spring up from practical reasons -- and he's known to purposely use cheap watch bands and flip the watch faces towards his wrists in an effort to hide them from view.. https://www.watchmaster.com/en/journal/stories-en/personalit...

The man has to keep time, and has the money to throw at that... Ever seen the dude all distracted starting into an iphone? He has clearly done away with such worldly goods and isn't making a dime on that at all! [1]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-wOoXijqZE

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#349

Post by zmgsabst »

bowsamic wrote: post #331
zmgsabst wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems awfully egocentric to declare other people’s beliefs “aren’t Buddhism”. Perhaps you should read more if you haven’t encountered the teachings on not becoming disconnected, but instead present and purposeful post enlightenment.

I don't think so, words have meanings, Buddhism refers to a group of sets of ideas and doctrines. Buddhism encourages disconnection, in fact the Buddha said that withdrawing is good and that sense pleasures are dangerous. What you said is wrong because it implies that suffering is NOT something we should seek to be free from. I take it you're a beginner to the practise?

> Buddhism encourages disconnection, in fact the Buddha said that withdrawing is good and that sense pleasures are dangerous

I don’t think that’s what the Buddha teaches — rather, that we should be intentional in our attachment. (Sense pleasures are unrelated to what we’re talking about — but I agree it says eg, intoxication is bad.)

> What you said is wrong because it implies that suffering is NOT something we should seek to be free from.

Yes — simple disconnection is vapid, it’s only once we choose to live out our actual role in accordance with our True Self or Intentional Self that we’re actually free.

The desire to “escape” through enlightenment, which ends in disconnection, is a false awakening — though one many experience.

> I take it you're a beginner to the practise?

Your need to insult me or denigrate my experience and beliefs because they don’t agree with yours points to a strongly egotistical mindset.

Are you a beginner?

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#350

Post by jan_Inkepa »

manmal wrote: post #269
jan_Inkepa wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His business was selling generic "herbal remedies" IIRC. Which is bad/predatory IMO. And going further to meta-hustle that this is salutary enough to recommend to others without any seeming compunction is meta-bad. (I know it's bad posting something this dismissive in deeply nested comments, but I believe it is relevant information to the discussion which hasn't been mentioned elsewhere. I tried elaborating but the e…

Are you referring to BrainQuicken? They sold regular supplements, mainly B vitamins and alpha lipoic acid, marketed as nootropics (which they are). I can't see what's wrong or unethical about that. Unless you think all kinds of resale are unethical?

It appears my recollection was incorrect, and I retract my initial claim. Yeah, it was more nootropic than herbal. Yes, th "neural accelerator" that is "100% guaranteed to work within 60 minutes of the first dose." (http://www.blackhat.be/toxic/brainquicken.html is the closest thing I can find to what looks like the original marketing blurb). One should be highly skeptical of such claims, but frankly it's not as bad as it was in my memory (though still outlandish/over the top), and I'll make a note to not be quite so mean about him in future. Thanks for your comment.
Post reply on HN