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Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

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Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#341

Post by klysm »

ysleepy wrote: post #267
luckydata wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ADD is just old terminology. You have ADHD, and you should read up on some updated science cause you got some very weird, very wrong ideas about your own condition. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33549739/

[...] 15 The clinical presentation of ADHD can be described as primarily inattentive, primarily hyperactive-impulsive, or combined, depending on the nature of their symptoms (American Psychiat-ric Association, 2013). [...] I assume ADD is nowadays just a shorthand for the primarily inattentive presentation.

I find this distinction to be confusing and not particularly useful. Brace for armchair science!: Although it may present as primarily inattentive, the hyperactive stuff can sneak through subtly. I think it becomes un-learned a lot of the time by adulthood such that the DSM criteria don't _seem_ to apply as strongly but it can very much still be there. At least for me, I think I have 'learned' to be more 'chill', but I still can't help myself from interrupting people a lot of the time.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#342

Post by klysm »

opportune wrote: post #167

As someone diagnosed with ADHD later in life, a lot of these ADHD superpowers are just the result of taking dopaminergic stimulants. Especially the hyper focus and feeling superior to people staring out the window or failing to heads-down work for several hours straight. Yes you can hyperfocus even without stimulants, but the real superpower is having access to them so you can channel that consistently. I personally…

> As someone diagnosed with ADHD later in life, a lot of these ADHD superpowers are just the result of taking dopaminergic stimulants. Especially the hyper focus and feeling superior to people staring out the window or failing to heads-down work for several hours straight.

This is the complete opposite of my experience. A lot of my life has been dominated by a hyper-focus that feels like it isn't under my control. I would stay awake reading until I can't think anymore with relentless pursuit of something that was entirely non-relevant to critical priorities in my life.

I very recently (past couple of months) started taking stimulants, and one of the biggest differences for me was the feeling of desperation to pursue was greatly relaxed. Not gone, but definitely not as intense.

I think a lot of the problem here is the definition of focus is overloaded. For me, there are (at least) two distinct levels of focus on different time scales. I define short-term focus as stability on task level executive function. Can you tolerate a brief interruption and go back to what you were doing? Or plan ahead for the next task? This ability is absolutely compromised relative to the population norm for me. I have essentially 0 local stability. On a longer time scale, I think a similar stability notion applies. I frequently get completely engrossed for periods of a few weeks on a topic - beyond healthy levels of interest. But one day, it's just gone - vapid.

Time for some serious hand waving: my mental model of what stimulants do to me decrease the activation threshold for picking something in an executive space. By lowering this plane, it's easier for me to remain more stable as the surface is a lot more clear.

I'm curious to know if what I'm saying sounds like 100% bullshit though - I haven't really talked through this mental model with anybody.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#343

Post by klysm »

nicolas_t wrote: post #280
shmageggy wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This part of the author’s account struck me as well. Like, yeah it would be great if I could summon the hyperfocus at the right moment, and sometimes impending deadlines/tests cause that, but more often than not it just doesn’t work that way. And if it does, the last-minute cram session is way more stressful and less effective than actually doing the work over time would have been. Yes, the author got that A that one…

I can focus for hours straight in a quiet room but: a) I can't choose what to focus on. So if I need to do something but it's not the latest thing I'm obsessed about, tough luck b) Deadlines help but if it's not something I'm obsessed about and there's no deadlines, not going to happen My experience maps the author, I did well in university because becoming super interested in a subject and reading everything about i…

This might be the most relatable comment I've ever read on HN - it at least feels better to know I'm not alone in the experience.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#344

Post by poulpy123 »

jrapdx3 wrote: post #41

ADHD is a common condition in adults, estimated to be around 3-5% of the population. It's very frequently comorbid with other behavioral disorders like depression, bipolar disorder, obsessive-compulsive disorder, etc. But even "pure" ADHD can be quite disadvantageous. People with ADHD are much less likely to finish school, have trouble staying employed, more likely to be divorced, have greater health care utilization…

What improvement would an adult with ADD (without H) have without being diagnosed and without having access to a treatment ? I may or may not have ADD but diagnosing adults in my country is extremely uncommon, and anyway the symptoms I have can be indicative of many other mental troubles, so I'm interested in not-medical ways to cope

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#345

Post by watwut »

slowmotiony wrote: post #279
watwut wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It definitely does not work like that here. It is quite hard to get those drugs prescribed. You wont get them with 5 min long visit.

I don't know what to tell you. I did get it exactly like I described, in Germany, and it was an online appointment.

Just say "Germany" instead of "everywhere EU"

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#346

Post by slowmotiony »

balfirevic wrote: post #330
slowmotiony wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what to tell you. I did get it exactly like I described, in Germany, and it was an online appointment.

> I don't know what to tell you. Maybe try not telling them "everywhere in the EU".

My script is EU-wide and the survey is standardized, but you're right - I should have specifically contacted a psychiastrist in each of the 27 countries to make sure.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#347

Post by nicolas_t »

klysm wrote: post #343
nicolas_t wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can focus for hours straight in a quiet room but: a) I can't choose what to focus on. So if I need to do something but it's not the latest thing I'm obsessed about, tough luck b) Deadlines help but if it's not something I'm obsessed about and there's no deadlines, not going to happen My experience maps the author, I did well in university because becoming super interested in a subject and reading everything about i…

This might be the most relatable comment I've ever read on HN - it at least feels better to know I'm not alone in the experience.

You got me curious, so I read your other comments :) And yes, I totally can relate to " I frequently get completely engrossed for periods of a few weeks on a topic - beyond healthy levels of interest. But one day, it's just gone - vapid."

This is coupled with a bit of a shopaholic tendency where I'll buy anything that would be useful for my new topic of interest (I didn't use to do this, but now I have disposable income so there's no more barriers to doing it) and sometimes by the time everything I bought arrives, I'm just no longer interested.

It's been useful for work because occasionally I will have unhealthy amount of interests in something that will be useful for my work. It's just that it's not controllable.

I relate to what you say about stimulants, however one problem I have is that if I'm not very well rested, concerta makes me sleepy. Unfortunately, I have a newborn so sleep is compromised and that means that right now stimulants cannot help.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#348

Post by sph »

adhdgaslight wrote: post #150
symlinkk wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, anyone benefits from Adderall whether you have ADHD or not. How are you so sure you really have it?

The scientific consensus of the medical community is very clear [1]. ADHD exists. It is also clear that the individuals who have it do in fact suffer from it. Unfortunately medical science is not at the point yet where it can, in an individual case, objectively verified with e.g. a brain scan or a blood test. You should be aware that comments like yours, while surely not your intention, do real damage to the large ca…

Thanks for this. You can discuss any disorder with people and they'll take you seriously, but mention ADHD and everybody is quick to point out that it can be cured/you need to eat better/you need to do more exercise/you need to try harder/it's a talent you need to embrace/it's just a ploy to get stims.

I used to be this kind of person, I ignored the fact that I had many ADHD signs, and it's taken me decades to finally figure out what was wrong with me all along was something I thought was bullshit. Getting diagnosed has completely changed my life.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#349

Post by [deleted] »

petesergeant wrote: post #219
pornel wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please stop with the "candy" trope? Here in the UK, ADHD drugs are controlled substances. They can only be prescribed as by registered psychiatrists as part of ongoing treatment with patient monitoring. There are not enough doctors qualified to do this, and as a result people who need the treatment are facing year-long queues. Don't get medical advice from TikTok, and don't form an opinion of a mental disorde…

> Here in the UK, ADHD drugs are controlled substances They're controlled susbtances in the US too, but there appear to be a whole slew of sites in the US where you can fill out a form and they'll send you a perfectly legit scrip > There are not enough doctors qualified to do this, and as a result people who need the treatment are facing year-long queues. For anyone reading this who thinks they might need treatment a…

[deleted]

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#350

Post by [deleted] »

thequux wrote: post #59

I have ADD. Not ADHD; I'm almost never hyperactive. I do, however, hyperfocus on anything and everything, to the point that it's caused severe problems to my career, relationships, and personal life. I'm nearly always hyperfocused on something, and I rarely have control over what that is. I'll forget to eat, sleep, talk to people, or really do anything else for several days at a time when it gets bad. Fortunately, ov…

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