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U.S. forgives 40k student loans

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#341

Post by caseysoftware »

hunterb123 wrote: post #139
marricks wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

45 million folks in the US have student loans so even some action for 3.6 million folks isn’t a large percentage.

So since it's only 8% it's fine? How many 8% increments can there be until we're allowed to be against this? I'm against any percentage of funneling taxpayer money to college administrators. Reduce tuition, don't rubber stamp federal loans while letting administrators increase costs.

I think we already have a solution built into the legal system: Lemon Laws.

From the Great Wiki in the Sky: "Lemon laws are laws that provide a remedy for purchasers of cars and other consumer goods in order to compensate for products that repeatedly fail to meet standards of quality and performance."

Obviously, these degrees did not meet the standards of quality to make "productive members of society" so the universities should have to "buy them back", preferably using their own endowments.

In the short term, it would hurt them immensely - which is deserved for selling a "product" that wasn't worthwhile but in the long term, it would mean that they're more likely to a) keep prices more reasonable and b) make a higher quality "product".

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#342

Post by peterangular »

tejohnso wrote: post #289
loourr wrote: post #12

It's crazy to cancel student loans and still keep issuing the exact same loans. If we believe the loans are unjust then the government should stop handing them out as the very first step.

I'm curious to know how these loans became such a political issue. It's unusual to take out a loan and then complain about having to repay it. That's how it is supposed to work. We don't typically reward people for digging themselves into a hole by bailing them out. Unless they're large corporations. We bail them out in certain cases. But I don't think that's a popular idea either.

100% in good faith:

> I'm curious to know how these loans became such a political issue. It's unusual to take out a loan and then complain about having to repay it.

Saddling _teenagers_ with such debt is problematic in many ways. For many of my peers they were not ready/cut out for college but still had the debt + schooling jammed down their throats because "it's what you're suppose to do."

Then, there's the cost to quality situation... I got nailed with this one - accredited private college with little oversight with a _horrible_ program for my area of study. We're talking two professors for the entire subject, and most of the courses they had advertised in their catalog hadn't been offered in over _seven_ years. Lots of people's time at school was just jumping through hoops for an "education" with very little value to their eventual career.

Cost has gone through the roof - administrative costs for colleges have skyrocketed. I've worked in marketing for schools - they're businesses before they're educational facilities. They're profit seeking through tuition, grants, donations, etc. Don't even get me started on sports...

> We don't typically reward people for digging themselves into a hole by bailing them out.

They were put through an incredibly profit-seeking system that operates in it's own self interest to get as much tuition as possible. Just like the healthcare industry, we've let administrative costs and middlemen drive the price of an education up while whittling the quality of it down.

100% they were not the only ones digging the hole that they find themselves in. Additionally, I have a hard time nailing 17-18 year olds to the cross for poor decisions in regards to their "digging" activities.

> Unless they're large corporations. We bail them out in certain cases. But I don't think that's a popular idea either.

And, just saying - yes this happens!! We consistently cut breaks to the interests of capital (large corporations, the rich w/taxes). Regardless of how any of us feel about it, this will continue to happen. So if our corporate benefactors are getting help, why can't a citizen with/seeking an education get some help too?

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#343

Post by rc_mob »

macdaknife wrote: post #332

I paid off my student loans each month until I was 34. I did it, and it made me stronger. Making other citizens pay for your loans is selfish, and it will come back to bite the people who accept this largess.

things sucked for you and so you are determined to make it suck for others

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#344

Post by bombcar »

snarf21 wrote: post #230
honksillet wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

End federal involvement in student loan and allow student loan debt to be discharged in bankruptcy. Problem solved.

This is a bad plan. Why would any 21 year old ever pay? Just ignore this debt until it is discharged. So you have to wait 7 years to buy a house? That sounds like no big deal. What we should do is have the fed define a maximum allowable charge for the school loan that can be protected by the government. Pick some number, like $10K a year all in. Any other school loans can be discharged as they aren't protected or sch…

Federal student loans went unbankruptable in 1976, private ones in 2005.

Did everyone routinely go bankrupt before 1976? I didn't before 2005.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#345

Post by rootusrootus »

stetrain wrote: post #301
hunterb123 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So since it's only 8% it's fine? How many 8% increments can there be until we're allowed to be against this? I'm against any percentage of funneling taxpayer money to college administrators. Reduce tuition, don't rubber stamp federal loans while letting administrators increase costs.

Why not do both? Forgiving past loans for graduated students does not put future money into the hands of college administrators unless you continue issuing and forgiving future loans. Fixing the grift and providing relief to those who were grifted should be two sides of the same coin.

Sure, do both. But the relief, as it were, needs to come after the fix.

And frankly, rather than just give a relatively privileged subset of the population some money, we might as well crank up that printing press again and just got a $10K check to every last citizen, student loans or not. Might as well be equitable about it.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#346

Post by rc_mob »

Waterluvian wrote: post #39

I hope every single person who is vocal about cancelling student debt, but doesn’t talk about fixing the underlying problems, recognizes that they’re just another generation of unremarkable hypocrites. It’s a real problem deserving a real solution. Well beyond people just sticking their hands out, saying “gimme!”

why not both?

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#347

Post by [deleted] »

InitialBP wrote: post #94
throwaway894345 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And also reimburse the people who sacrificed to pay theirs off or avoid them in the first place. I’d donate my reimbursement if they did, but of course they won’t.

Demanding "even-stevens" all the time doesn't help the situation at all. The people that were able to pay off their loan debt were people who chose a degree that would be able to make significant money, were talented enough to land a great job in a field without a lot, or had the circumstances that let them finish a degree where others were unable to. Do some people make bad decisions about degree choice? - Yes Do so…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#348

Post by ben940830298432 »

twblalock wrote: post #321
loourr wrote: post #12

It's crazy to cancel student loans and still keep issuing the exact same loans. If we believe the loans are unjust then the government should stop handing them out as the very first step.

The really crazy thing would be to end the student loan system without providing an alternative. If you do that, only kids with rich parents get to go to college. The current system is far from perfect but it enables kids to attend college regardless of their parents' wealth. Any replacement system needs to enable that too.

The private market would just require people to be more responsible about taking out loans. If people that take out loans for basket weaving often don't pay them back nobody would give out a loan for basket weaving. If someone is on their 5th major or college without completing any credit they won't get any more loans without having some backing.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#349

Post by MCllorf »

jatone wrote: post #309
_moof wrote: post #27

Please, please, please take note before commenting: These are being forgiven under the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program, created in 2007 (fifteen years ago), which eliminates your remaining debt after you've made ten years of payments while working in the public sector (government or non-profit). This has nothing to do with current debates around loan forgiveness.

its 100% intentional on the administrations part. this is their 'creative' way of trying to not meet their campaign promise. highly annoying.

He still has time to do loan forgiveness "helicopter money" style. But even if all we got was an expansion of targeted relief programs I think it totally counts as fulfilling his talking point. The issue with student debt is that for some people there's no way out, but generally speaking college-educated people are more well-off and forgiving all debt would be a regressive stimulus that targets the wealthier side of the population. Targeted relief is a great way around that.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#350

Post by Fomite »

InitialLastName wrote: post #330
mywittyname wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard disagree. The Obama administration drastically altered federal student loans worked, end-to-end. One of the largest changes was to get the DoE directly into the market of lending and holding student loan debt. Cutting out servicers like Navient, and costing them tons of money in lost subsidies and essentially nationalizing the industry. Policies such as Public Search Loan Forgiveness, Pay as You Earn (PAYE), Per…

> And this is probably the reason that it's been a day-one policy issue for the Biden administration Here on day 455 of the Biden administration (who, by the way, was the least interested in resolving the student loan issue among his Democratic Primary rivals), it sure doesn't look like it was a "day one" issue.

I know someone who is enrolled in this program - unfucking it has been an ongoing task since very early in the administration. But like many things, it takes a bit to figure out how to untangle a program that was actively sabotaged for four years prior.
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