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You can change your number

signal.org

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Re: You can change your number

#341

Post by enlyth »

berkes wrote: post #339
enlyth wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So some algorithm somewhere will eventually try to parse five years of shitposts and memes between me and my friends and try to figure out what it can advertise to me based on it, I can't say I'm even mad

Ah, the old 'I don't need privacy because I have nothing to hide' fallacy.

I have nothing to hide because I recognize the intentions and limitations of different platforms. Discord is a gaming chat platform and I post and act accordingly there. I don't understand why I should be entitled to privacy on a free chat platform hosted with someone else's money.

Re: You can change your number

#342

Post by jillesvangurp »

scotty79 wrote: post #67

Why would supposedly secure communicator use actual phone number as identifier is beyond me. And everybody does that, either phone number or email. The only software I could find for anonymous communication was old Polish communicator http://gg.pl which uses arbitrary numbers as identifiers I understand that startups are scared that they won't be able to build up userbase from scratch but come on! Discord and Slack d…

Keybase got it right before Zoom acquired them. They decoupled identities from your account data. Basically they allowed you to claim identities via a dozen or so different things they supported (email, phone, twitter, github, domain names, public pgp keys, etc.), and then prove that you owned it by posting some token, sending a message,. Which would then associate the identity with the account. The more identities you claimed, the stronger the proof that you were you.

Taking a new device into use was as simple as authorizing it from one of your existing devices. All the data would sync over and be encrypted with a device specific key locally. And you could disable that key from any of the other devices.

Too bad that company more or less failed. They never really figured out a business and the zoom acquisition looked more like an acquihire than a long term commitment to the product. But it's a good design that is worth copying.

Re: You can change your number

#343

Post by ternaryoperator »

legalcorrection wrote: post #266

It's been promised for years, but you still can't use a second phone as a linked/secondary device. As a result, it is literally impossible to have the same signal account on two iPhones. Since they already support using an iPad as a linked device, this would require little more than changing a flag and a recompilation. Maybe they have their reasons, but all they keep saying is 'soon'.

> this would require little more than changing a flag and a recompilation.

Almost never is this true, even on small projects, which Signal is definitely not.

Re: You can change your number

#344

Post by Vinnl »

guerrilla wrote: post #279
mlissner wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can just say the message wasn't received. They don't have to say it was uninstalled. Just loudly tell me things aren't working like I expected. That's all this takes.

You could just check for yourself if it's important. I do.

There are multiple anecdotes in this thread, on HN, that people missed that. All GP is asking for is better UX making it more obvious, because being able to check is something other than knowing to check and how to check.

Re: You can change your number

#345

Post by frabcus »

charcircuit wrote: post #139
recursive wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is any of this stuff more popular than actually calling people? How are people calling? Memorize phone numbers? I'm completely stumped about how someone could use a cellphone for a decade without using a contact list.

I don't even have my friends' phone numbers. If I want to call a friend I do it on my desktop using Discord. Before like 2016 we would call using Skype instead.

This is fascinating. I feel like an anthropologist so have lots of questions.

Do you have multiple Discord servers or just one for all your friends?

Roughly how old are you and are you a student or in a job or something else? What country or region?

When you meet a new person you want to stay in contact with, how do you do so?

Do you use only Discord with friends or do you also add them on eg Facebook or Email or any other communication system?

In my world (employed, UK, middle aged) at work generally we use Slack (kinda like you’re using Discord in a way), shifting to phone numbers when you know people well for non work stuff.

Everyone else I meet, the assumption is to exchange phone number and use WhatsApp - exceptions would be iMessage or Signal sometimes. Or email or Twitter in business circumstances.

Re: You can change your number

#346

Post by antman »

This is an important addition. My request list would be from easier to harder:

- Strong anonymity

- Offline and cloud encrypted backups that can be imported to the new IDs (also potential monetization source)

- Secondary IDs per user and one off IDs, with the nature of said IDs communicated to the other party (primary, secondary permanent, one off). Of course it could create problems but with a proper blocking mechanism within signal (e.g. block one off IDs and secondary IDs from unknown numbers) by default would be seamless.

-Mobilecoin usage seamless across IDs, retaining anonymity

Re: You can change your number

#347

Post by frabcus »

runnerup wrote: post #299
__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not wrong, but if we care about privacy isn't that an association that we need to break? Wanting to live in a society where people can have secrets ought to be reason enough to use technology that keeps yours. And then there's my mom, she's on a grandfathered mobile plan that charges her $1 every day that she sends any text messages. I got her on signal so she didn't have to pay the $1 when she texts me. She g…

Why does it need to tell everyone I have a Signal account? Adobe doesn't tell everyone that I own Photoshop. Gmail doesn't tell everyone that I have a Gmail email. PornHub doesn't tell everyone that I subscribe to their premium account. Why the fuck does Signal need to? Broadcast should be off by default, on by opt-in.

This page gives some details and the technical reason can be inferred:

https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007061452-Do...

It doesn’t send the number to them - Signal don’t get the contact list from your phone. It uses a very clever private contact discovery protocol.

The reason their phone has to know is so that they can then message you. Otherwise there would be no way to message people - a phone has to know who is on Signal to be able to do that.

While the notification could be off by default, since the phone necessarily has to know when your contacts are on Signal for the app to function, it is being transparent about the privacy situation.

Details of the private contact discovery system:

https://signal.org/blog/private-contact-discovery/

Re: You can change your number

#348

Post by Hakashiro »

scotty79 wrote: post #67

Why would supposedly secure communicator use actual phone number as identifier is beyond me. And everybody does that, either phone number or email. The only software I could find for anonymous communication was old Polish communicator http://gg.pl which uses arbitrary numbers as identifiers I understand that startups are scared that they won't be able to build up userbase from scratch but come on! Discord and Slack d…

Threema allows phone number, email, both, or neither and just a random PIN like BBM

Re: You can change your number

#349

Post by mort96 »

sneak wrote: post #330
snowgrove wrote: post #282

I stopped using Signal, along with my adult tech-oriented friends, when we all had bad experiences migrating our accounts to new phones. That plus the phone number requirement, intrusive contacts integration, and the weird crypto side projects killed my interest in Signal entirely. My friends and I use Discord now.

Discord is not end to end encrypted, and Discord, along with whoever buys them, will receive the complete plaintext message history of all of your conversations with those friends.

But for a lot of purposes, encryption really isn't that important. Most friend groups isn't a group of journalists and their sources discussing state secrets. The privacy from end-to-end encryption is a nice-to-have, but I'm not even sure if it's worth the inherent inconvenience for most friend groups.

Re: You can change your number

#350

Post by genewitch »

kelnos wrote: post #224
clairity wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i'd expect it to be much like imessages/facetime on apple products. it can use an email username or a telephone number. the telephone number predominates (because it also does sms/mms), but either can be used on any apple product.

I wouldn't expect that. A goal of allowing usernames will likely be to let people remain completely anonymous. Linking your Signal account to an email address doesn't work for that. Even if you create a throwaway email account somewhere, it'll often be traceable back to you somehow.

Wait, is the idea I can go to signal on some library computer and send a message to whoever I want anonymously?

Because that's a pipe dream.

First of all, you can't monetize it, and, unfortunately that is a non-starter. I can't see people throwing money at this, with the implications. Secondly, assume I want to contact the same anonymous person again. They have to somehow easily prove they have access to that username.

Even 4chan had a mechanism for this. Assuming you don't shield your IP, or you move between locations between, at least the service knows that, and that isn't anonymous.

A pre shared key off a one time pad only proves that someone has the same pad.

I think anonymity isn't achievable. Secure is more important. I talk to someone a lot, I want that secure. I don't really care if anyone knows we're talking, just whether they know the content.

Hosting your own metal somewhere helps with that. You'd obviously notice a warrant or whatever.

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