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We need to reclaim our attention

theguardian.com

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Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#341

Post by slibhb »

nabla9 wrote: post #192
slibhb wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair point, it may turn negative at some point but we're not there yet. It's a moral panic. We're not talking about war or genocide, we're talking about the young people staring at their phones too much.

That's another type of fallacy. If there is no obviously horrific consequences, there is nothing. Either/Or Reasoning. My position is that we don't know yet. Some harms may be transitory and people adult. Making arguments for or against without good data and reasoning is not helping. Making your mind up prematurely makes it harder to change the opinion when the evidence comes in.

The author of this article (and you) think one thing. I think another. Calling my thought a "fallacy" because I've made up my mind prematurely makes no sense. You (and the author) have made up your mind too. We can't endlessly defer our opinions, that's epistemic nihilism.

To me, this seems like just another old vs. new turf war and I predict it will turn out like the previous ones. "Everything must change for everything to remain the same".

I'm not saying "it couldn't possibly" be a problem, I'm describing what I see, like you, and like the article.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#342

Post by xg15 »

bittercynic wrote: post #155
jacquesm wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. And then, at the end of every youtube video a whole slew of totally unrelated trashy videos that are perfectly produced to produce maximum engagement and eye candy will hijack your attention and steal another 3 hours before you even notice that they're gone because of the in-your-face nature of the recommendations. Wouldn't it be great if all youtube did was just store and replay videos? But it doesn't, it's an…

Not a complete solution, but I like to block the elements that are most distracting to me. www.youtube.com##.html5-endscreen .ytp-pause-overlay www.youtube.com###secondary

Does that actually stop the autoplay or just hide the countdown?

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#343

Post by slickdork »

speedcoder wrote: post #62
jacquesm wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One form this takes is that people with some regularity claim that 'all this advertising doesn't work on them' while having an iPhone, ridiculously over-priced in ear headphones, designer clothes with large logos on them and shoes with very visible branding. Advertising works, on everybody. The only way to get to a level playing field is to filter it out of your life as much as possible. The only thing I haven't foun…

https://www.tvbgone.com meant as a prank. And I love using it almost anywhere.

I miss when cell phones had built in IR and you could do this with an app.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#344

Post by slibhb »

xg15 wrote: post #339
slibhb wrote: post #42

> Some scientists say these worries about attention are a moral panic, comparable to the anxieties in the past about comic books or rap music, and that the evidence is shaky. I agree with them. It's hard to pay attention to something for long unless it's entertaining. Reading a book, reading a paper, etc -- these activities take discipline that most people don't develop or don't often apply. This isn't new. The mista…

This is basically echoing the "you just need to be more disciplined" argument from the article.

The ability to make yourself do something that you consider good but yields no immediate pleasure is real, useful, and can be cultivated.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#345

Post by xg15 »

slibhb wrote: post #344
xg15 wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is basically echoing the "you just need to be more disciplined" argument from the article.

The ability to make yourself do something that you consider good but yields no immediate pleasure is real, useful, and can be cultivated.

No one denies that. The article argues that current "attention economy" tech is actively making this harder or even impossible.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#346

Post by slibhb »

xg15 wrote: post #345
slibhb wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ability to make yourself do something that you consider good but yields no immediate pleasure is real, useful, and can be cultivated.

No one denies that. The article argues that current "attention economy" tech is actively making this harder or even impossible.

Saying it's impossible is denying it...

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#347

Post by xg15 »

slibhb wrote: post #346
xg15 wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one denies that. The article argues that current "attention economy" tech is actively making this harder or even impossible.

Saying it's impossible is denying it...

No, he is saying, it's becoming impossible - and he goes on to argue why this is the case. That's pretty much the main point of the article.

What's your counter-argument?

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#348

Post by _moof »

I would appreciate it if everyone commenting here would disclose any affiliations with companies whose business models depend on maintaining the environment described in the article. Thanks.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#349

Post by freedom2099 »

radicalbyte wrote: post #266
Enginerrrd wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a parent with a 3 and 4 year old who was only a functional adult if I worked out intensely at least 4 days per week, and now is struggling desperately to get that back, its not by choice. Children are just really demanding. I think a big part of the problem is that humans were not meant to raise children in isolated family units. You were meant to have a small village where they could go bother different adults an…

This. I loved lifting and felt fantastic before our 3rd was born (just before Corona), the last time has felt like being in jail. Luckily once the youngest kid starts school is gets 100x easier. Only two more years to go :)

Or maybe 3 kids are just too many to handle! I’m my first is coming an can already tell you is going to be the last!

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#350

Post by thegrimmest »

Apocryphon wrote: post #319
thegrimmest wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> negative effects What do you mean "negative"? Why do you consider captivating people negative? Do you think this view is universally held? I think people should be able to distribute any substances or provide any services "as is", without implied warranties of any kind. Offering such goods and service does not constitute physical force.

Negative, in this context, can constitute enough for whatever grievance that enough users are unhappy with their customer experience. To take this discussion from the normative to the practical, I do not believe the appropriate government role here would be to act as sole regulator but rather aid those users who are aggrieved by these businesses in more precise actions, such as filing amicus briefs in class action su…

> These supportive, assistive, incentive-based actions

All of these actions are done with the threat of fines for noncompliance, and the threat of imprisonment for noncompliance with the fines. They are also financed by taxation, which is involuntary and redistributive by nature.

> Then there simply should be more powerful NGOs

If these NGOs do not occur naturally, then there's clearly not enough demand for them. This is supported by your proposal to use authority to force them into existence. I'm opposing the use of authority to intervene in peaceful interaction between citizens.

Instead of forcing the issue, why not just be content with the fact that most people are not interested in forming voluntary collectives, even when it is in their interest, and in spite of the fact that they are free and entitled to, and allow them to suffer the consequences?

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