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Corded headphones are making an unexpected return

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Re: Corded headphones are making an unexpected return

#341
post #237
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of connection-oriented protocols other than TCP that do experience a disconnect during these packet-loss bursts. RTP, for example. There's a reason IP softphones are always wired, rather than being wi-fi devices — speaking RTP, they can't tolerate the somewhat-normal condition of RF-interference-induced 802.11-PHY packet-loss bursts nearly as well as devices speaking TCP can. They end up dropping cal…

That seems a problem with RTP more than with wireless connections.

No, it's an inherent problem whenever a packet-switched, multi-user, shared channel inherently built around queued transmission tries to emulate real-time protocols, the earliest of which is "a directly-connected wire."

This sort of substitution can work, but it requires very stable, low-noise links (that is, with little to no burst noise) and the cooperation of devices and network equipment.

Re: Corded headphones are making an unexpected return

#342
post #177

Today I learned that for most people, even on HN, headphones means earbuds. All wireless earbuds I have ever used, including Apple Airpods Pro, sucked. Fit, charging stability, not randomly breaking, sound, you name it. By contrast, I have wireless Sennheiser (over-ear) headphones which sound great (compared to my old wired HD25, say), last for 20 hours or so, and plug into USB, Headphone jack and, well, Bluetooth. R…

Yeah i never get the love for air pods, maybe i just have weird ears but no earbud has ever fit my ear in anyway that I would be acceptable.

I have a pair of jabra active elite's that i use for working out/biking/doing crap outdoors and they are fantastic. Can't really think of a single complaint with them.

Re: Corded headphones are making an unexpected return

#343
post #323

No mention of latency? I strongly prefer headphones wired for calls because they affect on lag is huge. Wireless headphones typically have more lag than the entire rest of the connection, usually 100 to 300ms.

Agreed, this is especially noticeable when making digital music. The latency was too much for me to be able to naturally follow a rhythm. Plugging in a wire improved the situation by a lot.

Re: Corded headphones are making an unexpected return

#344
Summary of thread - you can't keep everyone happy, and for some people there's no such thing as non-replaceable battery or broken cables if they have a soldering iron. The variety of things to complain about is greater with wireless.

Wires (+)

- Connection more reliable

- Sound quality consistent and stable (this is non-negotiable for some who won't buy a phone without an analog jack)

- Buttons on wire are convenient

- No battery worries

- Better audio "resolution", can hear more details (but theoretically wireless should be able to match "Harman target"), no compression

- Can replace cable, earpads if it fails (modular, good value Sennheiser HD25 has easy to replace parts - cable, earpad - and lasts >10 years; some manufacturers do not add 3.5mm TRRS jack)

- Clear which device is connected

- Simple and easy to understand

- Harder to lose

- Can use amp or USB DAC for sound quality

- Supported by decades worth of devices

- Better for environment as less disposable and repairable

- 1/8" RCA stereo jack is "best interface ever" (but ground connects last, plugging in may cause jumbled connections and shorts, and noises - bad with amps and speakers - partial plugging in possible, unbalanced signals; pros prefer XLR or heavy-duty cables such as Speakon, and TS/TRS cables only for patch cables such as guitar to amp; newer equipment uses audio over ethernet / Dante)

- Can convert to bluetooth with an adapter (e.g. fiio ubtr, although has less battery life) or 3d print a converter for flexibility

- Cheaper

Wires (-)

- Default headphone wires are short (but fixable)

- Headphone wire must be removed before taking off a shoulder-strap bag or shirt (can route under shirt or bag, but takes more time to put on or off and may yank wire if looking at phone so need slack in pocket)

- Tethered to source

- Taking off a face mask / shoulder-strap bag or passing a doorknob or exercising may tear headphones out of ears and damage them (need to treat wired headphones as consumable)

- Might tangle e.g. with keys in pocket, or if walking or running and putting things in and out of pocket (folding wire may help although some people thinks it damages wire; better wire materials may help)

- Some wired headphones are earbuds, so might be affected by issues people note for wireless earbuds

- Wires and ports may be fragile (may be able to solder to fix)

- Wires may crackle if not held in the right angle (although most headphones now come with replaceable cables, 2.5mm jack in headphone end)

- Annoying carrying cables

- May have cord noise

Wireless (+)

- Can change shoulder-strap bag or top without taking off headphones

- Portability: listen away from source (e.g. bathroom, up to ~40ft at home)

- Audio is fine in general (Airpods 2nd gen)

- For some (e.g. AirPods 2nd gen) no connection issues and good switching between phone and iPad (but auto-switching is not always wanted such as with an interval timer; sometimes connects to the wrong device)

- Bluetooth problems mostly solved in AirPods and Beats lines)

- Can help with hearing protection (e.g. reducing wind noise, especially on a motorcycle)

- Note that wireless headphones aren't necessarily earbuds (may have wrap-around design, although over-the-ear may hurt for glasses wearers), so some earbud issues are not necessarily linked to wireless; so longer battery life and can plug in if needed (so some people just use earbuds for sport)

- AirPods noise cancellation increases apparent loudness (also have transparency, normal mode; this is not necessarily just for wireless though)

- Not reliant on an analog jack (more device choice, one less part to fail)

- May be "cool" (but too popular so maybe "uncool")

- Convenient when moving around e.g. working out

Wireless (-)

- Don't connect, or only one connects, or randomly disconnect (possibly interference especially in crowded areas but not issue for everyone)

- Connection speed can be slow (varied experiences)

- Might connect to wrong device

- Sounds sometimes glitches out randomly (e.g. by large diesel generator), may have internal noise/audible hiss

- Bluetooth protocol - just drops stale packets, and enough dropped packets disconnects

- Earbuds fall out of some people's ears, so only use in "safe" places such as at home not outside (some people find OK for 5k run, may need better fit, and not necessarily a wireless only problem; more a problem if moving head a lot)

- Gestures and voice inconvenient without buttons as tapping just pushes into ear without registering (but AirPods Pro have buttons on stems and some use Siri/watch/phone instead of gestures; can also use device with wire between earbuds with controls and bluetooth transmitter)

- Batteries are inconvenient as need to be charged and get worse over time (can use one and swap to charge while using; maybe could have replaceable batteries - this is a HN obsession, can just resolder as cheap wholesale; wireless charging and case helps, USB-C headphones help too if used with USB-C computer)

- Latency (~200ms) means not good for pro audio or games or music or video (although some software may compensate e.g. YouTube)

- Bluetooth is not as quick to connect as DECT (e.g. Jabra DECT wireless headset suitable for all-day in call centre)

- Bluetooth is a complicated protocol with error correction and lots of failure points (software, hardware, bluetooth controller, protocol, medium, codecs) and not everything support bluetooth

- Easy to lose (would be good if had a way to wirelessly locate)

- Sometimes computer doesn't connect on bluetooth, especially on Linux and when using with mic or not

- Some models don't connect while charging (but wireless headphones can be temporarily wired)

- Other people may talk to you without realising you are wearing them if you have long hair, or think you're talking to yourself

- Bluetooth has lossy, pyschoacoustic compression (may cut out at low volumes to save battery), codec may be worse when using microphone as well (but not for all models)

- Worse for environment as finite lifetime with Li-ion battery

- Annoying carrying case (but needed for battery life)

- Expensive (but cheap clones may be OK, some say replacing every 3 years is good value for how much they use)

- Microphone can be bad

- May be security/privacy issue

- May be uncomfortable on your side

- Possible ear infections (as prevents ears from naturally clearing)

- Some complain volume not high enough

- May be heavier and bulkier

Speaker (+)

- If you're in the military and headphones will fall off, so just share music with a boombox

Individual models

- Sennheiser PX100 for good quality sound outside not driving as doesn't isolate from surroundings

- Sennheiser HD220s for radio and TV on tablet or phone late at night

- Sennheiser HD485s for music

- Bose QuietComforts (case is annoyingly big, but charges quickly)

- Bose SoundSports have wire between earbuds which clip to collar so hard to lose; also charge fast

- Galaxy Buds+ had bad battery after a year

- AirPods 150 Eur with 90min listening time after 1 year of use, 40 minutes in cold

- AirPod Pros (need to replace if has "crackling"), falls out for some not others, may be better with Apple devices, AirPods Pro take 5 hours to charge

- Nokia BH-503 on-ear bluetooth headphones lasted 10 years (minimal problems except slight pitch changes, OK sound quality but not as good as over-ears, one of first A2DP headsets)

- DT770 have bad non-replaceable cables (although can modify with a miniXLR socket), but may not be updated

- DT 700 Pro X (Beyerdynamics successor to DT770) has replaceable cords

- Shure SE215 in-ear headphones have detachable MMCX cables for 100 Euros

- Wireless Sennheiser (over-ear headphones) great audio (vs. old wired HD25), last 20 hours, plug into USB, headphone jack, bluetooth - mitigates battery issues

- Sony over-ear headphones have few isues

- Sennheiser wireless earbuds don't suck

- Sony WF-1000XM4 can pair multiple devices so don't need to disconnct then reconect e.g. phone and laptop

- Sony WF-1000XM3 "good" wireless headphones but connect to wrong device, low battery life, OK sound quality, bad voice quality on calls, one will turn on but not the other, buttons too sensitive e.g. if wearing hood or rainy/windy days, poor pairing; some people have good experience with this vs. AirPod Pros, but plug in XM3 for lossless music

- Sony WF-1000XM2s similar issues to XM3 but worse

- Sony WF-1000XM (first gen) very reliable with android but nothing else, very bad pairing

- Sony WH-1000X (headphones, not earbuds) - good audio, battery charge once a week, pairing perfect, comfortable all afternoon, but microphone low quality codec

- Bose QC45 has good quality codec even with microphone

- Apple Beats Fit Pro similar to AirPods Pro but has wingtip to keep in ear

- Bose QC15 had replaceable batteries (2009-2015)

- Beyerdynamics studio headphones last 16 years with replaced cords

- Apply corded EarPod microhpone sounds very good

Re: Corded headphones are making an unexpected return

#345

I have never really gotten used to wireless buds, and still find myself reaching for wires half the time: - Wireless buds don’t connect 100% reliably; sometimes I get one and not the other, or neither. Sometimes they will randomly disconnect during use. - Sometimes the sound glitches out randomly, which is so irritating that I don’t care how good the sound supposedly is the rest of the time. - Gestures and voice are…

You don't have to accept wires to not have buds. There are 4 options: 1. Wireless buds 2. Wireless non-buds (some sort of wrap-around design to keep them on) 3. Wired buds 4. Wired non-buds I go with (2) personally, but mainly because Apple stopped me using wires. My main problem with bluetooth is that the headphones aren't loud enough (yeah you have to watch the line between loud and damaging but headphones are my o…

BT headphones get plenty loud enough. Anything louder will cause hearing damage.

Re: Corded headphones are making an unexpected return

#346

I have never really gotten used to wireless buds, and still find myself reaching for wires half the time: - Wireless buds don’t connect 100% reliably; sometimes I get one and not the other, or neither. Sometimes they will randomly disconnect during use. - Sometimes the sound glitches out randomly, which is so irritating that I don’t care how good the sound supposedly is the rest of the time. - Gestures and voice are…

A number of these complaints seem like they are issues of implementation and not of wirelessness in and of itself.

I definitely found 3rd party Bluetooth headphones to be not worth the trouble early on, but since Apple introduced the AirPods I got tempted back to them. Either Bluetooth got a lot better or Apple's doing something clever (or both), because with the occasional "one pod didn't wake up; put it back in the case and take it out again" issue, they work perfectly for me.

I do still use corded headphones -- I'm an audio guy; I have a bunch -- but it's increasingly rare.

Re: Corded headphones are making an unexpected return

#347

I have never really gotten used to wireless buds, and still find myself reaching for wires half the time: - Wireless buds don’t connect 100% reliably; sometimes I get one and not the other, or neither. Sometimes they will randomly disconnect during use. - Sometimes the sound glitches out randomly, which is so irritating that I don’t care how good the sound supposedly is the rest of the time. - Gestures and voice are…

I had a kid a few years ago when I switched. Wearing headphones and holding a child sucks because they will probably get pulled out of your ears. I always hated cords tangling in my pocket and I'd often have the wires snag on a doorknob or drawer when walking around--often breaking them. I also used a messenger bag.

Ear fit sucks, is it worse with cordless headphones? Ear fit always comes up with earbuds, wireless or wired. I've heard individuals say wireless is better for them because there's no wire tugging on their ear. I'm surprised to see a lot of people walking around with over-the-ear headphones (I tend to use them at home or on a plane).

Re: Corded headphones are making an unexpected return

#348
post #170

I have never really gotten used to wireless buds, and still find myself reaching for wires half the time: - Wireless buds don’t connect 100% reliably; sometimes I get one and not the other, or neither. Sometimes they will randomly disconnect during use. - Sometimes the sound glitches out randomly, which is so irritating that I don’t care how good the sound supposedly is the rest of the time. - Gestures and voice are…

As someone who worked as a freelance audio engineer I have certain pairs of (chorded) headphones that I just want to use to hear my mixes (or other music) on. I know how they sound and what they do to sounds. Every in-ear solution I had in my ears up to now doesn't even get close in terms of "resolution" (this is not a technical term but it is true, that some monitoring solutions will let you hear more of the recordi…

+1 for HD25

I "upgraded" mine with a fiio BTR5. Now I just wrap the cable around the BT receiver and put it in my shirt pocket. Wireless freedom with wired 'phones!

Re: Corded headphones are making an unexpected return

#349
post #344

Summary of thread - you can't keep everyone happy, and for some people there's no such thing as non-replaceable battery or broken cables if they have a soldering iron. The variety of things to complain about is greater with wireless. Wires (+) - Connection more reliable - Sound quality consistent and stable (this is non-negotiable for some who won't buy a phone without an analog jack) - Buttons on wire are convenient…

Wow thank you very much!

Re: Corded headphones are making an unexpected return

#350
I'm seriously considering this.

Every other day, on Windows, my Bluetooth headphones decide they prefer the left output to be louder than the right outpout.

And it will randomly fix itself. Truly randomly.

Nothing I try to do, from adjusting auto settings, to disabling the headset mic, to re-installing drivers, to rebooting, to unpairing/repairing, to everything else has any impact on it.

Then it will start working normally, only to stop working a day later.

And it's not the headphones, it's the Bluetooth stack. All headphones I try are either broken or working, depending on the day and whatever mood my Windows Bluetooth stack is in.

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