Wow, this should be great news for Svelte and SvelteKit! Hopefully with Vercel's backing these projects will fly off. Having worked with React for about 5 years (with a project in Vue in-between) and now having dabbled with Svelte, there is just something more appealing working with less higher-level abstractions. Sure with large apps React does have its benefits and its ecosystem is larger by a good amount. But ther…
Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time
341–350 of 571 posts
Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time
#342Rich Harris has done a lot of great work. Until esbuild came along, Rollup was the only sane JS bundler for those of us who can’t stand Webpack. Svelte has some interesting concepts, albeit I am planning to stay with React. His code is always interesting to read. Then there’s Vercel. I was a big advocate for them years ago, back when they were Zeit. I used them in production at multiple companies and I contributed to…
Maybe I'm misreading your comment, but Richard Harris did not create esbuild. Evan Wallace, co-founder of Figma, is the person behind it.
> Until esbuild came along, Rollup was the only sane JS bundler
Rich Harris did create Rollup
Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time
#343I'm tired of having to learn yet another templating language without a very compelling reason. Why do I have to learn, what is essentially, a new programming language for each of these frameworks (Angular, Svelte, Vue, React... Do I really need to learn yet another language construct for stuff like `loops`, `if/else`, event handlers...etc. Why must all of these frameworks re-invent the wheel? At least with React it i…
Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time
#344Earlier quoted context omitted.
Didn't downvote either. Almost consider upvoting for visibility of the hilarity displayed. "There are too many frameworks! Why does everyone keep re-inventing the wheel? Why can't everyone just use the one that I like? "
I never asked anyone not to use svelte... I said why should I be compelled to learn this new language, other than it being the hot new UI framework of the day. It doesn't have a virtual DOM? It doesn't have synthetic events? Ok why not just use web components which provide their own encapsulation and vanilla JS. I don't have to learn a new language which may or may not be around/supported a few years from now... Also…
Rich Harris is going to work for Vercel, who are arguably most famous for Next.js, which is… React.
Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time
#345Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time
#346I like React’s opinionated top-down model (with callbacks passed downwards as needed either directly as props or through a store / context) for handling state changes, as this improves composability and ability to reason about state. My understanding is that Svelte’s main difference from React is that it is not opinionated in this way, and this is considered a positive feature by its proponents. Is my understanding i…
Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time
#347Earlier quoted context omitted.
Seems like svelte is superior for not needing a key.
fair criticism I wonder how svelte optimizes for rerendering of long component lists. React uses keys to avoid rerendering the entire list.
Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time
#348Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, rewriting it with Electron + Svelte + a Rust backend for the heavy lifting. I looked at alternatives to Electron because I wanted to avoid the bloat, but nothing felt like the right fit. Tauri ( https://tauri.studio/ ) is the most exciting, but I couldn't find a good way to get raw video frames into the UI without a bunch of expensive copies or serialization. I also looked at native toolkits like Qt (I've worke…
Interested to hear if you considered compiling Rust to WASM and what your thoughts were?
Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time
#349I'm tired of having to learn yet another templating language without a very compelling reason. Why do I have to learn, what is essentially, a new programming language for each of these frameworks (Angular, Svelte, Vue, React... Do I really need to learn yet another language construct for stuff like `loops`, `if/else`, event handlers...etc. Why must all of these frameworks re-invent the wheel? At least with React it i…
I completely agree with you, and I've yet to see a compelling argument against this. I've been doing this since the rise of the SPA, all the way from vanilla, jQuery, Backbone, Angular 1.0, Ember and React and after reading your comment all I can think of is "great, we're going back to handlebars templating again". There is no net-gain in re-inventing the wheel. It just becomes yet another thing to master to stay rel…
The meme that there are new frontends daily is extremely tired and has been totally false for several years now.
Also the only thing those baseless complaints achieve are flamewars and shitting in other people's work.
Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time
#350I'm tired of having to learn yet another templating language without a very compelling reason. Why do I have to learn, what is essentially, a new programming language for each of these frameworks (Angular, Svelte, Vue, React... Do I really need to learn yet another language construct for stuff like `loops`, `if/else`, event handlers...etc. Why must all of these frameworks re-invent the wheel? At least with React it i…
The Svelte approach follows the handlebar approach of having semantics be represented by DSL constructs - which is a very reasonable approach IMHO.
The Suspense semantics are so far off left field that someone literally wrote a whole framework specifically in response to its complexity[0].
And that complexity permeates every language construct used within a React component. Why can't we call hooks from inside if statements? Aren't if statements just JS? If you have to bring up React's internal implementation to explain, that's no longer "just Javascript", it's also a healthy chunk of very React-specific knowledge that you need to be aware of.
Vue is another example that provides a successful story of a very large algorithmic migration from a reactive system to virtual dom with virtually no disruption to consumers, thanks to the abstraction provided by its DSL. In contrast, try telling my wife (who's learning about class components in her React course) that functional components and hooks "are just JS, what's the big deal", and see how far that takes you :)