Earlier quoted context omitted.
But people are purchasing the horse version. What is the conversion between a 50 mg tables and a tube of paste for a 1200 lb animal? By using the wrong formulation you run the risk of liver damage due to an overdose of ivermectin.
That's a straw man. These people are of course doing something dangerous but mainstream newspapers are routinely calling doctor prescribed Ivermectin 'horse dewormer'. Both 'camps' treatment of this subject has been a real low water mark and it looks like the science might be as well.
Lesson of ivermectin: meta-analyses based on summary data alone are unreliable
341–350 of 493 posts
Re: Lesson of ivermectin: meta-analyses based on summary data alone are unreliable
#342Earlier quoted context omitted.
All of this is for the patient and their doctor to decide. Not the pharmacist. Not the FDA.
> All of this is for the patient and their doctor to decide. > Not the pharmacist. Not the FDA. In case you don't know,the FDA is the US regulatory body whose mission is to " [protect] the public health by ensuring the safety, efficacy, and security of human and veterinary drugs, biological products, and medical devices;" In the US, doctors only prescribe drugs that have been verified by the FDA, and pharmacists only…
The FDA has approved the use of Ivermectin in humans. We're not talking about like, heroin, or some toxic chemical that isn't even a drug.
1 in 5 prescriptions are off-label.
Meaning, to treat conditions that the FDA has not approved the drugs for. This idea that doctors are only allowed to prescribe drugs for FDA-approved use is just like, incorrect.
Re: Lesson of ivermectin: meta-analyses based on summary data alone are unreliable
#343Looking at the greyed out comments it seems HN is not pro, but against scientific debate. Questioning science IS part of the scientific method. https://c19ivermectin.com/ is a very adequate counter-argument to the article, and it's unfair to the whole scientific community that comments are greyed out that mention it.
Re: Lesson of ivermectin: meta-analyses based on summary data alone are unreliable
#344Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're saying re: vaccines? There's been several deaths believed to be caused by the vaccines and attributed as such by the FDA/CDC. And, you know, a few hundred thousand lives saved.
Not a troll: how do you know that number? Pfizer’s own RCT showed no difference in all cause mortality after six months
Re: Lesson of ivermectin: meta-analyses based on summary data alone are unreliable
#345Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is true, but just because the two are on opposite sides of the culture war doesn't mean they're medically mutually exclusive.
Actually, it does. The only reason one would be taking iver prophylactically, is because one wasn't vaccinated. And the only reason to take iver after covid symptoms develop is because you didn't take the vaccine. If one was vaccinated and are feeling sick enough to take iver, she would be better off with oxygen and hospital SOC.
Re: Lesson of ivermectin: meta-analyses based on summary data alone are unreliable
#346Earlier quoted context omitted.
How many users have been taking it in human-designed doses, given that it's not generally prescribed for COVID-19 (and therefore those who are taking it for that purpose are mostly self-medicating)?
> given that it's not generally prescribed for COVID-19 This is disinformation, it turns out. Plenty of doctors are prescribing it. Anyone in the US can go online to one of a dozen telemedicine services and get a prescription for an appropriate dose of ivermectin within hours. This can then be filled at any pharmacy in most states which prohibit pharmacists from refusing to fill prescriptions because they heard on CN…
Re: Lesson of ivermectin: meta-analyses based on summary data alone are unreliable
#347Earlier quoted context omitted.
Officially the FDA and CDC say there have been 0 deaths from adverse events. I agree, that's way too neat of a number for the real world.
Nitpick: there were plenty of deaths reported as adverse events. It was just found that they were mostly expected in a normal population. I know in Germany we did have over 20 dead from AZ thrombosis.
Re: Lesson of ivermectin: meta-analyses based on summary data alone are unreliable
#348Earlier quoted context omitted.
Seems like you guys should take a look at Brazil as a cautionary tale for what happens when these miracle treatments are adopted by politically inclined doctors and sold to the masses as the magical solution.
Source?
Re: Lesson of ivermectin: meta-analyses based on summary data alone are unreliable
#349Earlier quoted context omitted.
Settled is a strong claim, but as far as I’m aware (I have many connections amongst the medical and epidemiological communities), the general consensus is that ivermectin does not work. For instance, the FDA, WHO, the AMA, the American Pharmacists Association, and the American Society of Health-System Pharmacists all say it should not be used outside of clinical trials because there is no good evidence for it, and ev…
>Instead, I’m interested in how these “treatments” with no strong evidence are getting weaponized by motivated agents (like the anti-vax crowd) to sow distrust both in scientific organizations (the CDC, and the FDA, Pfizer, Moderna, et al), and in the use of tools with proven effectiveness, like the vaccines themselves. In this polarized environment CDC/FDA/WHO/AMA are political organizations first and authoritative…
Even discarding whether we drill into the issues with the relatively small body of ivermectin studies, for or against. There isn’t anything approaching a consensus there.
On the other hand what does have a consensus is that the vaccines work.
Recommending the best possible action is pretty clear and obvious. Using ivermectin as a prophylactic isn’t close to settled and even if it did have a positive result that doesn’t necessarily make it as effective as the vaccines. Nor is it as reasonable a treatment regimen.
As far as actually treating active/severe COVID cases we do have verifiable and working treatment mechanisms. Let’s just actually use what we know works. Makes more sense for everyone.
I’m all for having more, and better studies don on ivermectin. But this is absurd.
The loss of authority with the public is certainly about politics. But it is very obviously a political action being taken upon them, rather than one they’ve put out themselves. They have been politicized, as have many things in recent history for outside political gain.
I have some pretty serious issues with the FDA around many aspects of policy but unless you actually believe (and maybe you do I don’t know) that the vaccines are harmful ( in which case nobody can dissuade you no matter what), then the current advice is pretty obvious and clear cut.
Ideally ivermectin would show a clinical benefit because the best ways we have to treat an active/severe case are very expensive (Remdesivir/monoclonal antibodies) are unlikely to trickle out to most of the world.
Re: Lesson of ivermectin: meta-analyses based on summary data alone are unreliable
#350Earlier quoted context omitted.
A friend of mine found a doctor to prescribe it but his pharmacy won't fill it. He is so pissed. He was only planning to take small doses here or there as he's a teacher and around sick kids all the time, as if it were like Zinc to hopefully help reduce the severity of Covid-19 if he does get it, but despite going through the effort and succeeding in finding a doctor willing to prescribe it (and my friend even signed…
This "friend of yours" should probably get vaccinated then, because we know that works pretty well.
Also thank you for what I presume is you insuinuating by putting "friend of yours" in quotes that you think I'm talking about myself. I've been vaccinated since April and I have been a lot more careful about this virus than at least probably 90% of the people out there, at least in the US. I still wear masks outside the house and avoid going indoors very often (I didn't do it at all until I was vaccinated).
Hell, I wore masks on hiking trails outdoors while holding my breath when walking past others on the trail back in 2020, which was probably overkill in retrospect. I also only had food delivered, never even going through the drive thru, and didn't order anything that couldn't be heated in the microwave for 3 minutes to try to kill the virus since it was unclear whether it transmitted via surfaces back then (so no sushi, sandwiches, salads, ice cream, iced coffee, etc).
Personally I wouldn't try to hunt down some of these alternative drugs, which I'm pretty skeptical of, but there seems to have been some mixed data on this one and I can at least understand why someone might want to give it a shot in reasonable and proven to be safe doses, especially if they have no choice but to be surrounded by it all day long (I work from home, my risk at work is nonexistent).