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For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

economist.com

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Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#341

Post by spdionis »

digbert wrote: post #281
jimsimmons wrote: post #273

What bothers me more is that these tech companies aren’t even trying to have a conversation with their employees. If they did a survey and collected opinions from their employees the decision would be pretty trivial. But the managerial gang knows that and they want to side step it. The companies want to pretend they care about the employees. They claim to be giving them perks. In reality, these perks are just gamific…

> If they did a survey and collected opinions from their employees the decision would be pretty trivial. I'm not so sure about that. My company recently announced that our offices wouldn't be reopening until at least November, and there was a lot of quite angry pushback from people who are desperate to get back.

All managers I'm sure! /s

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#342

Post by woutr_be »

nickjj wrote: post #319
fuzzylama wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is that 750 USD supposed to cover? - Monitor - PC/ laptop - desk - chair ... either one of those things can cost as much as that

> What is that 750 USD supposed to cover? - Monitor - PC/ laptop - desk - chair ... either one of those things can cost as much as that If I were to guess it's maybe all of those things except the PC / laptop because chances are the company would issue that separately with a $750 budget. My sample size is only 3 based on people I know who have similar deals: - One of them got $2,000 to buy whatever work supplies they…

My company issues a laptop to every employee, you can also buy a mouse and keyboard, headset, various dongles, monitor, through our company portal.

So that money is mainly used for a chair and desk, or really anything else you want. Even if you don’t use it, it’s just another extra $750.

I found it more than enough, bought a cheap desk in IKEA, and a $300 office chair.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#343

Post by smorgusofborg »

caskstrength wrote: post #333
smorgusofborg wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It has always been the case that if employee "disagrees" with management decision that their ass should be in the office 5 days a week, then they will have to find a new job. Not really. You negotiate with a boss who has to consider how your deal will affect other's deals. The deal environment changed so the deals they need to make are going to change. Everyone voting on the same deal that is compatible with all ro…

> Not really. You negotiate with a boss who has to consider how your deal will affect other's deals. The deal environment changed so the deals they need to make are going to change. I'm in a team that has multiple "remote" people since before pandemic. We all can't suddenly show up to single office because we are on three different continents, so, obviously, there is not much risk of our deal changing to something mo…

> I'm in a team that has multiple "remote" people since before pandemic.

When I was in a similar position, I regularly worked in groups who gave me every indication the majority would vote to relocate all positions to in-office in California. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to be hopping groups after each vote while the team was telling me how wonderful the west coast is. It was better that my role was negotiated and a group could deal with it or suffer consequences of looking for an all California team.

It seems to me like you are trying to fix a problem that doesn't affect either you or me, and I am saying I don't like the consequences to me of your fix.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#344

Post by Zandikar »

grawprog wrote: post #72

I dunno, for a group of people who seem to believe you're worth a ridiculous amount of money per hour, think of what your time is worth. You folks that make a living programming off exceedingly decent wages. You don't break your bodies every day, you're not forced to spend all day moving wood and metal, filling bags full of garbage, hauling shit that weighs 50+ lbs all day every day. You just gotta sit and think and…

Ah yes, The trades are underpaid and undervalued and as such everyone else that gets paid more is entitled and not deserving of a living wage and should just "suck it up". This sort of thinking just drags everyone down, and improves nothing for anyone. It's how we got to where we are, instead of "the good ol' days" where a single income near a minimum wage exceeded the skilled trades wages relative purchasing power of today.

How about instead of complaining about the color of the grass in others yards, we advocate for a living for all, and dare I suggest it, a thriving wage for the skilled, risky, or difficult jobs; irregarddles of whether they're performed at a desk or with a sweat. Alternatively/additionally, we should address the corruption and cost overruns present in many industries today (looking at you health insurance racket) that also reduce the relative purchasing power of any given wage.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#345

Post by aix1 »

genezeta wrote: post #225

I'm doing interviews now and, naturally, the question comes up. Am I looking for a remote position? Would I mind that the position is only partially so? Or that it is fully on-site? Obviously it's just anecdotal data , and I'm in Europe. So take this with a grain of salt, but I'd say: * There has undoubtedly been a big rise in remote positions, but not a huge one. Many of these seem to come from companies willing to…

I'm curious about the practicalities of the employer being based in one country and the employee, another. Furthermore, let's say they're not both in the EU as that would simplify things.

What are the practicalities in terms of employment law, taxation etc.

I understand that every situation is unique and am looking for personal experiences/anecdotes rather than generalisations.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#346

Post by aix1 »

higeorge13 wrote: post #312
ca01an wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, what sort of salary range would there be for engineers in your country?

Gross salaries for juniors is usually in the range of 20k annually, in certain companies or software (slave) houses even less. For seniors it should be around 40k. For lead or principals, even managers, around 60k. Consider that net salaries might reach 60% of gross for certain amounts and above (e.g. 60 gross is 36 net). And of course, these are anecdotal data, probably covering 99% of local companies. My current sa…

Are the amounts in your post in Euros or some other currency?

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#347

Post by thorin »

jusssi wrote: post #206
TeMPOraL wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That does indeed sound like a trivial problem to solve. Pick a local restaurant and treat it as your new cafeteria. Come lunch time, go there. Ideally, your employer would compensate you for the office benefit you're missing (at least when talking about pandemic-induced forced WFH), but WFH is likely already saving you more money, so you can probably afford it anyway.

The available selection could be a problem. Near my home, there's a sushi place, two pizzerias, a Subway, a chinese and some cafes that don't really serve anything I'd call lunch. After 1½ years I'm sick of all of them. I've been ordering from further away, but that costs 50-100% more, and many types of food lose quality in transit. Compared to the 30+ places reachable by foot within 45min lunch break at the office (…

Assuming this isn't a troll, I guess learning to make a sandwich or a salad is not outside the realm of possibility.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#348

Post by caskstrength »

smorgusofborg wrote: post #343
caskstrength wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not really. You negotiate with a boss who has to consider how your deal will affect other's deals. The deal environment changed so the deals they need to make are going to change. I'm in a team that has multiple "remote" people since before pandemic. We all can't suddenly show up to single office because we are on three different continents, so, obviously, there is not much risk of our deal changing to something mo…

> I'm in a team that has multiple "remote" people since before pandemic. When I was in a similar position, I regularly worked in groups who gave me every indication the majority would vote to relocate all positions to in-office in California. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to be hopping groups after each vote while the team was telling me how wonderful the west coast is. It was better that my role was negotiated an…

But it does affect me! Last time when I was looking for a new job I had a requirement that it must be either remote-friendly or have the office in walking distance to my home, which significantly reduced the choices for me. I really hope that pandemic will result at least some empowerment of teams to chose their preferred way to work.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#349

Post by blueflow »

thorin wrote: post #347
jusssi wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The available selection could be a problem. Near my home, there's a sushi place, two pizzerias, a Subway, a chinese and some cafes that don't really serve anything I'd call lunch. After 1½ years I'm sick of all of them. I've been ordering from further away, but that costs 50-100% more, and many types of food lose quality in transit. Compared to the 30+ places reachable by foot within 45min lunch break at the office (…

Assuming this isn't a troll, I guess learning to make a sandwich or a salad is not outside the realm of possibility.

A increasing fraction of people in the western world are unable to cook and/or prepare food. So probably not a troll.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#350

Post by nextlevelwizard »

thorin wrote: post #347
jusssi wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The available selection could be a problem. Near my home, there's a sushi place, two pizzerias, a Subway, a chinese and some cafes that don't really serve anything I'd call lunch. After 1½ years I'm sick of all of them. I've been ordering from further away, but that costs 50-100% more, and many types of food lose quality in transit. Compared to the 30+ places reachable by foot within 45min lunch break at the office (…

Assuming this isn't a troll, I guess learning to make a sandwich or a salad is not outside the realm of possibility.

Neither of those are actual meal
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