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An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

appleprivacyletter.com

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Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#341

Post by willseth »

websites2023 wrote: post #313

It’s astounding how many very smart people are getting this wrong. Perhaps I missed it, but does anywhere on this letter mention that that both of these features are optional? CSAM depends on using iCloud Photos. Don’t rent someone else’s computer if you don’t want them to decide what you can put on it. Content filter for iMessages is for kids accounts only, and can be turned off. Or, even better: skip iMessages for…

It's baffling. It seems like nearly everyone losing their shit over this doesn't understand how it works. Most of the commentary I see here and elsewhere is based on a misunderstanding of the implementation that blends the CSAM scanner with the child messaging scanner.

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#342

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

robertoandred wrote: post #269
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #82

I'm waiting for orthodox authorities to do stuff like reporting pictures of people (not just girls) without head coverings. or dressed in bikinis, thongs, or underwear (like a significant number of "influencers" do, every day). There are already places in this world, where a couple can be arrested for kissing in public. I suspect that the folks enforcing those laws, would have some real interest in this capability. N…

That’s not at all how this works. It doesn’t scan for images of arbitrary subjects. It scans for exact matches of known CP. Your vacation pics are in no danger of being flagged.

I don't think it's an exact hash scan.

If so, it would be trivial to defeat. People would simply need to do a 1-pixel crop, or recompress.

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#343

Post by shuckles »

epanchin wrote: post #333
websites2023 wrote: post #313

It’s astounding how many very smart people are getting this wrong. Perhaps I missed it, but does anywhere on this letter mention that that both of these features are optional? CSAM depends on using iCloud Photos. Don’t rent someone else’s computer if you don’t want them to decide what you can put on it. Content filter for iMessages is for kids accounts only, and can be turned off. Or, even better: skip iMessages for…

The new system is overkill for iCloud, which Apple already scans. The obvious conclusion is Apple will start to scan photos kept on device, even where iCloud is not used. Very smart people are not getting this wrong.

Apple does not already scan iCloud.

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#344

Post by jazzyjackson »

forcry wrote: post #94
tobyhinloopen wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Talking about this with non-tech people might make the distrust in anything they don’t understand worse. Think vaccines.

[flagged]

When did they take away my guns? I must have my missed that town hall.

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#345

Post by robertoandred »

chopin wrote: post #335
robertoandred wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The chance of you getting enough false positives to reach the flagging threshold is one in a trillion. And then the manual review would catch the error easily. The FBI won’t be called on you.

That's a claim by Apple. Due to the opaque process this is completely unverifiable. As well this statement relies on the fact that no malicious actor out there is trying to thwart the system. The hashes used are deliberately chosen to easily produce collisions otherwise the system won't work. This almost certainly will be abused.

“This almost certainly will be abused.” is a claim by you and completely unverifiable. Apple has published white papers explaining how their hashing, matching, and cryptography work. How do you see someone thwarting that process specifically?

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#346

Post by p_j_w »

caskstrength wrote: post #123
SirensOfTitan wrote: post #105

I know the privacy approach Apple has been pushing was just marketing, but I didn't care too much because I enjoyed my iPhone and M1 macbook. Because of this decision (and the fact that my iPhone more-or-less facilitates poor habits throughout my life), I'm considering moving completely out of the Apple ecosystem. Does anyone have any recommendations for replacements? * On laptops: I have an X1 carbon extreme running…

> On laptops: I have an X1 carbon extreme running linux, but it's entirely impratical to take outside of the house: it has terrible battery life and runs quite hot. I have X1C (not extreme) and it has excellent battery life with Linux. Consider using TLP ( https://linrunner.de/tlp/ ), if you want to significantly improve your laptop power consumption.

It's possible he's got an old X1C and the battery is just on it's last legs as well. If that's the case, he'd probably be better served using his M1 laptop sparingly until Linux support for it is better.

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#347

Post by zug_zug »

donkeyd wrote: post #192
zug_zug wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but he's using reducto-ad-absurdem to illustrate the law as written is absurd in some cases. So yes you can pedanticly cite the law and have an answer to the question, but you're missing the larger discussion. At somepoint somebody is gonna actually have to tackle that looking at images, especially fake ones, might not only be harmless, it might be safer to let people get release from their fantasies (I'd be cur…

> So yes you can pedanticly cite the law and have an answer to the question, but you're missing the larger discussion. While I do agree that drawings being illegal might not be in anyone's best interest, that doesn't have anything to do with the questions I asked. > At somepoint somebody is gonna actually have to tackle that looking at images, especially fake ones, might not only be harmless, it might be safer I thou…

>> implies you think that child pornography is actually a good thing.

Holy cow, that's the worst phrase anybody has ever put into my mouth. That's too offensively disingenuous to warrant any further discussion. Shame on you.

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#348

Post by buildbot »

judge2020 wrote: post #206
techdragon wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scanning for those things doesn’t allow them to scan the written or printed content of letters sent through the post. If i recall correctly isn’t there a legal distinction involved in mail privacy, I recall an explanation involving the difference between postcards and letters with respect to lawful interception…

Shine a bright light through the envelope, you Should be able to make out some letters. Maybe make a neural network for reading these letters and putting them together into sentences.

UPS and Fedex can do this as private companies, my understanding is the USPS actually can't due to the 4th Amendment:

"The Fourth Amendment protects the privacy of U.S. mail as if it had been kept by the sender in his home. Ex parte Jackson, 96 U.S. 727, 732-733, 735 (1878); U.S. v. Van Leeuwen, 397 U.S. 249, 252-52 (1970). It cannot be searched without a search warrant based on probable cause."

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#349

Post by ipodopt »

GordonS wrote: post #334
ipodopt wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laptop | Desktop: https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/overview/cp/linuxsystem... Router: https://www.turris.com/en/omnia/overview/ Media Center: https://osmc.tv/vero/ Cloud (Use TrueNAS Scale): https://www.truenas.com/systems-overview/ Phone: https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ Watch: https://pine64.com/product/pinetime-smartwatch-sealed/ Smart Thermostat: https://hestiapi.com/product/hestiapi-touch-one-free-shippin..…

I hadn't come across that Omnia router before - it looks great! Bit of a shame it doesn't support 802.11ax, and it is more expensive than I'd like, but still...

Might be a good idea to wait. It's coming soonish I think:

- https://github.com/openwrt/luci/pull/4994

- https://forum.turris.cz/t/wifi-6-ax-adapter/10390/77

I think the router might be my favorite open hardware piece:

- It was easier to setup then my old Asus router

- Schematics and source are easy to access.

- It has never not worked.

- It is made by a company that is a domain registrar with a good track record on open source projects (click the more button it the top right and you might recognize a few projects): https://www.nic.cz/

- And if you need to do something advance with it, you can. Mine is has Bird runing BGP.

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#350

Post by andruby »

sathackr wrote: post #42

US Government: We suspect the person in this photo of committing a crime. Here is your subpoena, Apple. You are directed to scan all iPhone and iCloud storage for any pictures matching this NeuralHash and report to us where you find them. Chinese Government: Here is the NeuralHash for Tienanmen square. Delete all photos you find matching this or we will bar you from China. Apple has at this point already admitted thi…

What will Apple do when Iran or Qatar (or any of the other 71 countries where homosexuality is illegal) upload photos to the CSAM database that they consider illegal acts?

In some of those countries same-sex sex is punishable by death.

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