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Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

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Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#341

Post by larrysalibra »

gr1zzlybe4r wrote: post #305
larrysalibra wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former American who lived abroad for about 11 years before renouncing, “cartoonishly cruel” is a pretty accurate description of the system. It’s even worse an American entrepreneur abroad because that makes things even more complicated. I gave up jumping through the hoops in 2018 and the self-torture and renounced. I shared my story in case anyone is interested: https://larrysalibra.com/goodbye-usa/

Have you ever wondered if it weren't HK - where your exit country would be? Did Italy or any other place in the EU appeal to you at all? I hold dual US-UK, which means the EU isn't really an option for me anymore.

I think about it time to time. But haven’t come to any conclusions. Some things about Italy are great - the geography and people. And compared to the USA they treat me very well as an Italian abroad - they proactively send me a ballot to vote every year and even give overseas Italians our own representatives in the legislature.

I’ve certainly liked visiting a number of places in the EU - it might be fun to try to live there.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#342

Post by tech_tuna »

amcoastal wrote: post #3

Its really a great system we have here --- get insanely wealthy off the backs of Americans who pay tons more for basic services and then when it's time to pay back run off and keep your change. No wonder America is doing so well.

If I had the means to do so, I would do it just to avoid the politics of the US.

Better cuisine is a big driver for me too - hello Italy or France.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#343

Post by mythz »

BelenusMordred wrote: post #325
mythz wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is untrue, if you're a citizen of Australia who is a non-resident you don't have to report or pay taxes on world wide income made outside of Australia.

The laws recently changed last month. If you spend more than 45 days in the country or tick two of the following dot points you are now considered a tax resident and need to pay income tax: * the right to reside permanently in Australia * Australian accommodation * Australian family * Australian economic interests. https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=a9c5000f-bde6...

This sounds like proposed changes, I'm not seeing these rules reflected on ATO's guidance:

https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/coming-to-australia-or-go...

This suggests it wont come into effect until 2022:

> Since draft legislation is not yet available, the rules likely will not apply before 1 July 2022.

https://www.taxathand.com/article/17653/Australia/2021/New-t...

> If you spend more than 45 days in the country or tick two of the following dot points

The proposed secondary rules only applies after spending 45+ days in a FY, not OR. Which is important because this new criteria basically applies to most people born in Australia, so it basically reduces the 183 day test to 45.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#345

Post by globular-toast »

hnthrwy1111 wrote: post #185

I'm an "accidental American" who has navigated this issue and it's incredibly easy. Just don't file. Every professional that writes blogs about this has a professional duty to give legal advice but the practical advice is just don't file. Look into what exactly triggers data to be sent to the IRS under your tax treaty and the policies of your financial institutions. Being "accidental" is the key here. If you tell you…

Do you ever travel in the US? Do you hold a US passport?

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#346

Post by f38zf5vdt »

jontas wrote: post #265
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's so irritating to be an American that has moved overseas. Basically the only country in the world that charges taxes on money you make and spend somewhere else, just because of where you were born. This is exactly why these people are renouncing US citizenship: They’re living overseas as citizens of another country and, like anyone rich or poor, don’t want to be paying taxes to a country they aren’t living in.…

The article is not drawing an arbitrary line: > The IRS publishes a quarterly list of the names of people who have renounced their citizenship or given up their green cards, but it only includes people with global assets over $2 million It may be an arbitrary line, but if so, it's the IRS drawing it.

It seems like no one actually knows what the list represents.

> Gibbons expected that the list would include only "a handful of the wealthiest of the wealthy" motivated solely by taxes; however, the people named in the list turned out to have a wide variety of motivations for emigrating from the U.S. and later giving up citizenship, and few were publicly known to be wealthy.[7]

> ...In contrast, Andrew Mitchel, a Connecticut tax lawyer interviewed by The Wall Street Journal for its reports on Americans giving up citizenship, states that the list is required to include all former citizens. [15]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarterly_Publication_of_Indiv...

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#347

Post by lordnacho »

fourthwaveska wrote: post #178
lordnacho wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The city on the west coast of Denmark? Is that a typo?

Yes, I love it there. My two closest friends moved there to study marine archaeology and within 3 years another 7 had moved there. We were married in Fanø. I’m old, I like the quiet. Ideally we would spend our winters somewhere warm and the rest of the time in Denmark.

It's certainly nice in the summer. Long but not too long sunlight, warm but not oppressive. I guess if you just spend summers there it wouldn't be hard to arrange.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#348

Post by Retric »

FredPret wrote: post #324
Retric wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That honestly seems quite reasonable. Citizenship comes with all sorts of obligations like getting drafted and serving on juries, taxes are simply the most obvious. On the up side you can apparently still qualify for Social Security benefits.

Citizens are not assets of the state

It’s a reciprocal relationship with rights and obligations on both sides not ownership. For example the FBI doesn’t invoice victims or their families when it gets involved in kidnapping cases.

Capital gains are deferred without interest until an asset it sold, that doesn’t mean there wasn’t an obligation for those years.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#349

Post by bluedevil2k »

dustinmoris wrote: post #260
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only because of US laws. I have two citizenships, but one residency. U.S. citizenship carries extraterritorial benefits. For example, we're pretty good at getting our people out of thorny situations, even at great national expense. If someone isn't paying to support that, it makes sense to force a revocation decision.

> U.S. citizenship carries extraterritorial benefits. Not sure about actual benefits. The US passports is one of the worst when it comes to travel. Many countries have stricter entry rules only for US citizen, or require at least a higher Visa fee in comparison to other Western nations or outright don't allow US citizens entry at all. I found my Austrian passport to be actually extremely beneficial. Most powerful pas…

> The US passports is one of the worst when it comes to travel

100% wrong! US passport is ranked 7th best in the world. You need very few visas and get waved through customs faster than visitors from most other countries.

* https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/2021/07/07/where-does-...

* https://www.thenationalnews.com/business/2021/07/07/the-worl...

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