Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? • Hacker News Board

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#341

Post by IggleSniggle » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:35 PM UTC

rantwasp wrote: post #325

mellavora wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both you and the parent seem to assume that 'evolution' means 'improvement' Humanity has clearly evolved, even in the last 200 years. Doesn't mean we are getting better

I think there is an individual and a meta/society level. I think both me and GP were referring to the individual/micro level.

And I think the person you are responding to was acknowledging that evolution didn’t just stop…as long as there are babies there are mutations, and the environment will select for some qualities over others.

If you meant super micro, then the same can be said of your immune system / gut flora, though I’m not certain of the relevance.

The point is that “evolution” doesn’t magically direct to some better outcome, or even towards a more sustainable local maxima.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#342

Post by Already__Taken » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:41 PM UTC

rossdavidh wrote: post #252

tzs wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is strange that the top known factors for this are not even mentioned in this or other similar news stories. First, closing of schools caused large numbers of women to leave the workforce in order to care for children. I'm a bit skeptical of that explanation in the US because schools close for 3 months every summer, without an accompanying large number of women quitting their jobs.

In many families, summers are typically full of "summer camps" that are actually "themed daycare for older kids". Those were mostly closed as well during the pandemic lockdown phase, and some still haven't come back (in the US, anyway).

There's a lot of international volunteers that go to help run those camps too as a holiday. Any of that was obviously gone too.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#343

Post by robertlagrant » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:42 PM UTC

detaro wrote: post #96

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could probably go to the Web sites of at least a dozen successful IT companies, and go to the "Meet the Team" page. They are invariably a large group of smiling -young- faces. There may be one or two greyhairs in the picture, but a quick shufti of the "Leadership" page often shows them to be C-suite or Board. Yeah, I'm a cynic.

I wonder if there's a corelation in the sense that the young-biased "startup-y" companies are more likely to even have something like a "meet the team" page. (I.e. you kind of need to be below a certain size, and even then plenty places don't have them)

There's a fairly common ideal of what a team photo should look like, and so the people that contribute to that ideal will be in the photo.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#344

Post by throwawayboise » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:43 PM UTC

Closi wrote: post #271

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All of this stuff about workers disappearing and people reconsidering their lives is pretty much a sideshow of projected narrative that is detached from what is really going on. Well said. We’ve been bombarded with news articles and thought pieces about how COVID has forever changed the workforce, how people are refusing to work jobs they don’t like, how people are quitting en masse because their employers won’t al…

Also, when I hear about people struggling to recruit, it’s often minimum wage jobs on awful conditions. People don’t want to work for absolute minimum wage on a temporary contract picking fruit? Colour me surprised!

IDK about everywhere but I'm not seeing anyone still paying minimum wage. McDonalds is paying $12.50/hr for day, $15/hr for night work. That's $30k/year FTE for a job that you can learn in a week and that requires zero prior experience or education. And they are still begging.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#345

Post by wpasc » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:44 PM UTC

geogra4 wrote: post #340

Is it controversial to state that many died?

I don't think it's controversial, but I don't think it's true. The job vacancies in the U.S. compared to the total deaths don't really match up. Even more so if you factor in that the age group with the highest death rate (elderly people) weren't in the workforce pre pandemic.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#346

Post by ipnon » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:45 PM UTC

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #113

paganel wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The worst part, for me, has been the naked contempt and disrespect. If you don’t mind and if it’s not sensitive do you mind to share some examples? I’ve just gone past the 40 year threshold myself and I think I’m starting to see/notice some of the same things you noticed, i.e. less “camaraderie” (for lack of a better word) and more “getting on top of the other”, a feeling I didn’t have when I entered this industry…

I will not give specific examples. Here, there be dragonnes... But I have been told "You know, because you're older, you'll need to ask for less" by recruiters (recruiters are the worst). I've had testers (silly tests), be quite disrespectful, and use tone and engagement (or lack, thereof), to make it clear that this is an annoyance for them, and I should just "get it over with," so they can do something "more import…

Working at startups has been my solution to this wide problem. No startup will turn away a domain expert in a field they need help with. A corporation over a certain size seems to glean all they need to know about me as soon as they see my bald head. Any social organization over a certain size seems to be allergic to people with much experience, I think because they cannot mold them into drones.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#347

Post by DantesKite » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:45 PM UTC

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #334

bottled_poe wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn’t sound liveable. How do you pay for rent?

I worked for over 30 years, lived frugally, avoided debt, and saved a significant chunk of my salary. As a result, I reached the point, where I don't need to work, if I don't want to. I want to work. I love what I do. I don't need to make money at it. I also like to help people, so I found people that want to help people, and can't afford much. It really is a shame. I have a fairly significant set of skills and exper…

Have you thought about building small projects that could earn you a little bit of income on the side?

Doesn't necessarily have to be an overwhelming product, but just a way of practicing and exploring work.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#348

Post by dv_dt » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:45 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #323

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All of this stuff about workers disappearing and people reconsidering their lives is pretty much a sideshow of projected narrative that is detached from what is really going on. Well said. We’ve been bombarded with news articles and thought pieces about how COVID has forever changed the workforce, how people are refusing to work jobs they don’t like, how people are quitting en masse because their employers won’t al…

> companies are abandoning office spaces in favor of full remote for months now On the other hand, traffic during rush hour seems to have returned to as bad as it ever was.

I think hn has a little bit of forgetful bias that their industry has probably the most amenable situation for remote work.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#349

Post by throwawayboise » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:48 PM UTC

eropple wrote: post #228

RHSeeger wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without trying to counteract your points about the pay/work/parttime/etc.... It's worth noting that a large number of restaurant owners make very little money. The margins/profits in that industry are razor thin. So the owner making less wouldn't be helpful, or even an option for many of them.

Then shouldn't they be working more personally? Or shouldn't they no longer be in business? (And yeah, I'm well aware how much many small restaurant owners work. See door number two.) People around here talk a lot about unsustainable business models. I don't think it's really any better if it's offloading its unsustainability onto its workforce, which is what's being described here. From where I stand, as somebody wh…

People need work to keep them occupied. It's built in to our psychology by evolution. We know that idle people cause most of the problems in society. So I do think there is a need for everyone to work to make the whole thing "go", if by "go" you mean have a peaceful, civilized way of living.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#350

Post by treis » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:48 PM UTC

ipaddr wrote: post #152

bombcar wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There can be practical shortages - there can just literally not be enough people in the area to do the jobs. Saying “it’s not a shortage because you could buy the Yankees and pay the players $millions to assemble widgets” isn’t very informative.

It is.. it speaks to wages not raising enough to meet the demand. You wouldn't need the Yankees a lot of people would do it for a million, half a million, 100,000 pounds. There always seems to be a shortage of people willing to work for little never a shortage of people wanting the CEO's jobs

>It is.. it speaks to wages not raising enough to meet the demand.

That doesn't really cover the current situation. In the US 7 million or so fewer people are employed than pre-covid. Wages haven't gone down so they can't explain the change.

Something else has changed for these 7 million people.