Why we should end the data economy • Hacker News Board

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#341

Post by KirillPanov » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 2:18 AM UTC

TchoBeer wrote: post #231

nitrogen wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

don't track/collect data Only two of your examples (parental controls and location sharing) require any kind of network, and those could be done with a private VPN running at home. The design of cloud-based services is purely for convenience and collection. Sometimes if the collection can be controlled, the convenience is worth it, but every beneficial algorithm could be run locally.

The funny thing is that the rise of cloud computing coincides with the rise of really powerful cheap personal computation, you'd think it would be the opposite.

I'm not so sure about that.

Smartphones are a massive leap forward in low-power/energy-efficiency, but my 2013 desktop machine (KGPE-D16) still creams every smartphone ever manufactured on any metric other than power consumption.

I'm kinda tired of hearing nontechnical people congratulate themselves on having a "supercomputer" in their pocket.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#342

Post by bombcar » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 2:51 AM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #252

amelius wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, great list. But salary and bank balance should probably be added.

But salary and bank balance should probably be added. ADP is one of the largest paycheck processors in the United States. But almost no one realizes that if their paycheck comes through ADP, their salary information is being sold. Remember, this is also a company that knows when you've been hired, fired, has your Social Security Number, and a lot of other very personal financial information. According to a New York T…

Bank information does appear in some other lesser know reporting agencies - but savings aren’t “credit” so it’s understandable they don’t appear on a credit report.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#343

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 2:52 AM UTC

cs702 wrote: post #54

No one sane would ever want their relatives, friends, work colleagues, and neighbors to be able to know (quoting from the OP): > who you sleep with because both you and the person you share your bed with keep your phones nearby > whether you sleep soundly at night or whether your troubles are keeping you up > whether you pick up your phone in the middle of the night and search for things like "loan repayment" > your…

If spying is tomorrow's only viable "economy" we are in trouble.

This is why "Big Tech" is a joke. Spying, like legally selling opiates, is not a legitimate business. It does not matter how much money can be made doing it.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#344

Post by couchridr » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 2:55 AM UTC

wyre wrote: post #226

matz1 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't think that means we don't need privacy. It absolutely has value. I never heard any convincing argument about why privacy has value. >but that doesn't mean we should allow everything to be collected. Why ?

People spend money on privacy. This gives it value. I don’t know anyone that would want to spend money on a hotel if there was a security camera in the room. I would get the more expensive room without the camera, probably go to a different hotel. Doctor and patient confidentiality is implicitly understood. Do you think doctors should be able to tell advertisers what their patients are going through. Maybe your own i…

The basic problem is that people undervalue data about themselves. They don’t imagine the kinds of conclusions that can be made, or the consequences.

It’s been more than a decade, but I was impressed by this research from Allessandro Acquisti that suggested people valued their data only in the pennies.

When 25 Cents is too much: An Experiment on Willingness-To-Sell and Willingness-To-Protect Personal Information, Jens Grossklags, Alessandro Acquisti, Workshop on the Economics of Information Security (WEIS), 2007

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#345

Post by KirillPanov » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 3:02 AM UTC

rhizome wrote: post #332

cs702 wrote: post #54

No one sane would ever want their relatives, friends, work colleagues, and neighbors to be able to know (quoting from the OP): > who you sleep with because both you and the person you share your bed with keep your phones nearby > whether you sleep soundly at night or whether your troubles are keeping you up > whether you pick up your phone in the middle of the night and search for things like "loan repayment" > your…

Its location is a bit more obscure, but I think there's a much simpler list of privacy practices to follow: whatever Mark Zuckerberg does. Anything he does to protect himself in the data realm is what we should be doing. Yes, I know there was the "Mark's FB has better defaults than yours" story some years ago, but this is outside of FB (though applicable anywhere). So what is it? Exploding email addresses? Making fri…

"Decoy House"

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/12/technology/how-to-disappe...

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#346

Post by TchoBeer » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 3:07 AM UTC

path2power wrote: post #314

TchoBeer wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously the problem is laws that outlaw homosexuality and not a lack of privacy.

To the people whose lives are at stake, what difference does it make?

None, but if we're looking at this situation (where the government is finding secret homosexuals and prosecuting them) and asking "what policies ought we enact to fix this" if your answer is "better privacy" that seems like it's looking at the wrong problem.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#347

Post by is_true » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 3:10 AM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #255

choeger wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Add to this that no one cares about whether the data is even correct. A glitch in the location tracking and, bam, you have an affair. Some wrongly assigned search queries or speech requests and suddenly you are a pedophile. A terrorist selecting you as a cover identity and you wake up in Guantanamo.

Add to this that no one cares about whether the data is even correct. It's interesting how our culture has adopted the mantra that "computers are never wrong." Yet, every day in the media there are dozens or hundreds of articles about computers and systems making mistakes. I wish we could break that cycle of believing anything that comes off a screen. I fight my own minor battles against this weekly. As part of my jo…

I asked google about data in google my business and they told me that it's just people's opinions. Go figure

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#348

Post by ant6n » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 3:15 AM UTC

an_opabinia wrote: post #229

SavantIdiot wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great list. SO many times people have said to me, "Let them track me, I've got nothing to hide." And you hit them with a few things off this list and they immediately change their mind. There should be a tinurl for website I can send people to that shows a simple list of all the ways personal information can be used.

> SO many times people have said to me I'm sure that's happened. > to some legal agreement almost no one has the time to read or expertise to understand in its full implications... New Declaration of Human Rights In the same breath: complain about long documents that no one reads, propose authoring an unenforceable, even longer document that no one will read.

True, no one reads the constitution or charter of human rights - way too long, unenforceable and niche. /s

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#349

Post by matz1 » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 3:26 AM UTC

Jorengarenar wrote: post #339

matz1 wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why ? because some one could stole my money or because someone else could log in without my authorization? What if there is a way to prevent that without PIN or private key ?

Both because someone could stole your money or authorize unwanted action. What other way of preventing that do you propose? Fingerprint? I will will send the data of fingerprint. Facial recognition? I will just grab your profile picture. What kind of method do you envise that could prove you are you and not somebody malicious?

I'm obviously not the expert, my point is we should try to seek the solution to the problem that arise when the information is public instead of trying to hide the information.

Here is another example: some people argue for privacy because the information can be used to criminalized gay people.

Well then fix the criminalization of gay people instead of trying to hide the fact that they are gay.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#350

Post by throway98752343 » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 3:33 AM UTC

erikerikson wrote: post #256

cs702 wrote: post #54

No one sane would ever want their relatives, friends, work colleagues, and neighbors to be able to know (quoting from the OP): > who you sleep with because both you and the person you share your bed with keep your phones nearby > whether you sleep soundly at night or whether your troubles are keeping you up > whether you pick up your phone in the middle of the night and search for things like "loan repayment" > your…

I had a wedding to make sure everyone closest to me knew who I was sleeping with (Emily as is already public record). It took a fair bit of time and money to coordinate and hold that event. When people ask how I'm doing, I tell them and that includes whether my problems are impacting my daily routines and needs. (Not lately) I've shared the results of my IQ tests and had plenty of discussions about the validity and l…

Good of you to offer concrete examples. I don't mean these as ad hominems since I don't know you, more as counter examples:

> I've shared the results of my IQ tests (145-160+)

I wonder if the part of the population with > I speed when conditions let that be safe.

Admitting to breaking the law is an excuse for higher insurance premiums and for the police to hassle you.

> I suffer depression

This is one of the few relatively "safe" mental health conditions to announce. Who's lining up to hire someone who's openly struggling with addiction or has psychopathy?

> I'm very honest and want that in my closest relationships

Let's say your partner gets served ads about how your single, attractive co-worker has been googling you late at night, how your location histories have significant overlap, and by clicking the ad they can find out more. Not everyone will get suspicious, but some people definitely will click.

~~~

It would be great if we could all be open like you say you are, but society isn't even close to ready for that. Any rapid transition (like wide-scale encryption breaks) would be traumatic on so many levels.