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China lands rover on Mars

bbc.com

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Re: China lands rover on Mars

#341

Post by BobbyJo »

walty8 wrote: post #337
BobbyJo wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Copy what works and innovate on top of it I think the main gripe with China's process is that they don't do the latter. They produce replica's then herald them as original works of the mightiest country on the planet. Everyone everywhere steals, but China does it with a little more 'F-U' than most countries, and tend to use what they steal to oppress. I spent a few years working for a defense contractor out of coll…

> I know the immediate response to this is going to be "But America did such and such...". I don't care what America did. When someone is on trial for stealing a car, talking about how someone else stole a bike isn't a defense. Well, this actually reminded me the case of Apple issued Microsoft for the infringement in 1988 [1], and Apple did not win because the Mac UI was actually 'referenced' from Xerox as well. http…

That wasn't a case of 'they stole something too', though. That was a case of 'this thing they're saying I stole from them, we both stole from someone else'. A lil bit different.

Re: China lands rover on Mars

#342

Post by badmadrad »

kstenerud wrote: post #188

It seems pretty silly to get all up in arms about copying other peoples' stuff. That's how humanity has innovated throughout the ages: Copy what works and innovate on top of it. None of our inventions arise from a vacuum. Cars are still as wide as Roman chariots for good reason. Power transfer uses the same base principles as were in play during the dawn of steam engines and before. Energy conversion has been an iter…

The fact your comment is upvoted says all you need to know about the parcipatants in this thread.

China merely isn't just engaged in industrial espionage because it works to not duplicate effort. They steal to undermine the effort of the people that made it possible to begin with. In many cases ruining the companies that made the original innovation. This isnt crying and whinging for no reason it's unethical and wrong. This isnt a two way street where chinese innovations are helping our world. Almost everything the Chinese steal all while burning through natural resources and at alarming pace and injecting the most harmful substances into the environment. And be honest they are simply doing this to saberrattle the US and create propoganda to legitmaze an oppressive state. So, yes it's not only unfair, it's evil. And I'm not happy for China.

Re: China lands rover on Mars

#345

Post by ttflee »

dis-sys wrote: post #252

This raises a questions - as China's Yutu-2 moon rover is still operational on the far side of the moon, if Rongzhu mars rover could be successfully deployed, assuming those two rovers (Yutu-2 on the moon and Rongzhu on the mars) can communicate with each other, via some relies of course, will that make it the first communication between two planets outside earth? has that been done before?

Its name is Zhurong (祝融), not Rongzhu.

Re: China lands rover on Mars

#346

Post by CRConrad »

make3 wrote: post #316
vimacs2 wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but I don't think you do respect "the engineers and scientists who made the marvel achievement" if the only thing that you are able to get out of this is as a publicity stunt to please the CCP. It is not an understatement for me to say that I abhor the US empire as a whole and their destructive effects on the sovereignty of the larger world. However, when I'm reading about a NASA project, I don't have the knee…

This country is a pure, violent dictatorship that imprisons more journalists and political opponents than anywhere else on earth, that is effecting ethnical k cleansing within its borders and that is aggressively looking to expend itself (Taiwan, after just being done with suppressing the independent government of Hong Kong). I'm sorry if people think about a bit more than something that will have tiny to no effect o…

Wanna know which "pure, violent dictatorship" imprisons more people than anywhere else on Earth...?

Re: China lands rover on Mars

#347

Post by Dah00n »

ghhchjb wrote: post #218
Dah00n wrote: post #191

What I find very exciting and something that is totally lacking from any news articles and discussions I have seen outside space-geek circles is that China is actually very much open to cooperate with other agencies. The China Russia plan of a base on the moon is open to partners whom would like to join: International Lunar Research Station. https://spacenews.com/china-russia-open-moon-base-project-to...

> The China Russia plan of a base on the moon is open to partners whom would like to join Including Taiwan?

Taiwan is officially part of PRC unless you are one of these countries: Belize, Guatemala, Haiti, Holy See, Honduras, Marshall Islands, Nauru, Nicaragua, Palau, Paraguay, St Lucia, St Kitts and Nevis, St Vincent and the Grenadines, Swaziland and Tuvalu.

So yes, Taiwan is part of the program.

Re: China lands rover on Mars

#348

Post by Dah00n »

bilbo0s wrote: post #296
ghhchjb wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The China Russia plan of a base on the moon is open to partners whom would like to join Including Taiwan?

China and Russia don't consider Taiwan a nation. We do. But they don't. It'd be like the US saying that Ambazonia or Palestine can participate in the ISS program. I'm sure the we'd happily let any other African nation participate for instance, but we don't recognize Ambazonia. And we consider it irrelevant that anyone else does. Needless to say, participation under a Palestinian flag would be a non starter. I'm almos…

No, the US do not recognise ROC/Taiwan as a nation.

Only these countries recognise Taiwan as an independent country: Belize, Guatemala, Haiti, Holy See, Honduras, Marshall Islands, Nauru, Nicaragua, Palau, Paraguay, St Lucia, St Kitts and Nevis, St Vincent, Grenadines, Swaziland, Tuvalu.

Re: China lands rover on Mars

#349

Post by Dah00n »

leke wrote: post #303
Dah00n wrote: post #191

What I find very exciting and something that is totally lacking from any news articles and discussions I have seen outside space-geek circles is that China is actually very much open to cooperate with other agencies. The China Russia plan of a base on the moon is open to partners whom would like to join: International Lunar Research Station. https://spacenews.com/china-russia-open-moon-base-project-to...

I would be impressed if they take the initiative and do it.

Building a base on the moon? It's part of the program they have already set in motion so I don't see them not doing so. Exciting times.

Re: China lands rover on Mars

#350

Post by mike_d »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #340
mike_d wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A great example is the Chengdu J-20, which was a direct clone of the F-22 using plans stolen from Lockheed Martin. The J-31 is heavily inspired by but not a complete clone of the F-35 because the latter was still under heavy development when the plans were stolen. ( https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/chinese-national-who-conspire... ) The J-15 is a clone of the Russian Su-33, reverse engineered from a physical jet they o…

There are instances of copying. That doesn't mean all successful technologies are copied. Some technologies are harder to independently develop. Supposedly advanced jet engines are really really hard, but space technology strangely less so, because of lower safety requirements. In other words: for the claim "their space technology is stolen", more proof is needed. Just because they copied some other area is not enoug…

The burden of proof is not on a random person on the internet to investigate their space program. I can't prove the technology is stolen, just as much as you can't prove that it isn't. We are not nation-states and don't have the access or resources.

But a reasonable person can look at a pattern of behavior and extrapolate. If China in this case was a CS academic that had plagiarized a few papers, HN wouldn't be falling over themselves to give them the benefit of the doubt on their latest work.

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