Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever • Hacker News Board

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#341

Post by jogjayr » Tue, May 04, 2021, 1:52 PM UTC

astura wrote: post #314

jogjayr wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The burning of significant amount of wealth is a costly signal of commitment to the receiver. So why not buy something practical and expensive? Like a house or a car?

Because houses and cars are useful, the GP pointed out that being uselessness is the entire point >the high cost and useless-ness of the gift are a feature not a bug The other thing is the marketing says diamonds are "forever," presumably like your love, but houses and cars require expensive maintenance and are easily damaged. Not good if you're buying something symbolic. Not that I personally agree, far from it, we…

> The other thing is the marketing says diamonds are "forever," presumably like your love, but houses and cars require expensive maintenance and are easily damaged. Not good if you're buying something symbolic.

Definitely some symbolism there. Relationships (romantic and otherwise) are indeed more like houses and cars - innately valuable, easily damaged, and requiring regular maintenance - than diamonds.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#342

Post by andrewzah » Tue, May 04, 2021, 1:52 PM UTC

jogjayr wrote: post #262

grw_ wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The economics behind diamonds are better explained by an sociologist, not a geologist- the high cost and useless-ness of the gift are a feature not a bug! The burning of significant amount of wealth is a costly signal of commitment to the receiver. I heard from a friend who worked at a diamond company (and as such could purchase stones with significant discount to market price) that his fiancée had specifically rejec…

> The burning of significant amount of wealth is a costly signal of commitment to the receiver. So why not buy something practical and expensive? Like a house or a car?

You're thinking in terms of real people, not what weird things rich people do with their money. The uselessness is part of the point.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#343

Post by twobitshifter » Tue, May 04, 2021, 1:54 PM UTC

KennethPT wrote: post #201

cyberpunk wrote: post #3

Married members of HN, what did you do if you think diamonds are utterly ridiclious however due to societal constraints some kind of ring is required for your SO?

Alternate view: Almost everything in life is ridiculous when you view it with cold logic. It's utterly ridiculous to put golden balls on a fake tree in your house every year, but due to societal constraints most people in Western societies do it. Your SO probably doesn't want a logical gift, she wants something sentimental that makes her feel that you care about her. For some people, that's an expensive rock with no…

Exactly. The ring is not for you and your wife will be wearing this for the rest of her life if all goes well. If you are unwilling to give her something extravagant because you value paper money so much more, then you’re not ready to go through with the sacrifices that come with a marriage. If your wife wants a diamond, but you want to control your wife and bend her to your will of not having a diamond, you can try and you might succeed, but there will be some resentment every time she sees it on her finger and this will not be an issue that just fades away. Expect to hear it echoing for a long time. Do you want your marriage proposal to be associated with an argument, disagreement, or even a compromise?

On the other hand, a loving relationship and marriage is worth much more than a diamond ring ever could be. When you have a caring wife and you both love and help each other you’ll get an immeasurable improvement in your life.

To conclude, yes it’s overpriced, yes there are problems with diamond mining, yes DeBeers artificially controls the supply, and yes you can find a rarer stone for less, or something more exotic, but your wife wants a diamond, so you buy a diamond and hopefully live a happy life.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#344

Post by adonovan » Tue, May 04, 2021, 1:54 PM UTC

This is bad journalism. The article says:

"Pandora also emphasized price as a consideration behind its decision. Lab-made stones cost about a third of mined ones and the switch will make diamond jewelry accessible to more consumers, it said."

In other words, this is a cost-cutting measure that happens to have environmental and ethical benefits: everybody wins. But somehow the headline is "Jeweler Pandora Takes Ethical Stand Against Mined Diamonds".

It can't be both an ethical stand an a convenient way to increase profits.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#345

Post by dijit » Tue, May 04, 2021, 1:54 PM UTC

globular-toast wrote: post #274

Kalium wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no need to flatter blatant sexism with the dignity of honest argument. Indeed, there is nothing to be gained by doing so.

What's sexist about it? 85% of engagement rings are bought by men, for women [0]. Are statistics sexist? [0] https://www.jewellermagazine.com/Article/8591/Women-spend-mo...

Jarring worldview to hold.

Buying rings isn't the problem- you stated "the value of a ring is how much a man is willing to pay for access to sex".

Without a further breakdown of why you think that's a reasonable statement to make it just sounds weirdly myopic.

People pay more because of status "I am a good provider and I can prove it", or because the woman wants to feel valued.

It doesn't go back to sex, not for a long time, in fact sex is very far removed from the idea of modern day marriage in the majority of western countries.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#346

Post by redis_mlc » Tue, May 04, 2021, 1:55 PM UTC

TekMol wrote: post #15

cyberpunk wrote: post #3

Married members of HN, what did you do if you think diamonds are utterly ridiclious however due to societal constraints some kind of ring is required for your SO?

Honest question: Why marry in the first place? Why practice a personal relationship in a way others have designed? Isn't it somewhat contrary to the theme of Hacker News? To me, the term "hacking" describes the habit of doing things in a more interesting/efficient/fun way than how they are usually done.

> Honest question: Why marry in the first place?

For women, it's a free pension plan and a way to hedge against her rapidly declining looks.

If you're a man in 2021, then you should not get married. There is almost nothing but disadvantages for men.

(For young men: a marriage contract is not romantic - it's not like the movies. It's a business contract that is enforced by the state in the US. Make sure you understand the impact of signing a contract when the other party benefits from breaking it.)

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#347

Post by anoncake » Tue, May 04, 2021, 1:55 PM UTC

tiborsaas wrote: post #126

joeblau wrote: post #65

Random diamond story! As a freshman in college, I took a geology class and our teacher asked all of the women in our class to raise their hand if they would rather have natural or human-made diamonds. Most of the women (over 80%) raised their hands for natural. The reasons they gave all seemed to tie back to branding and natural diamonds being “real.” Then our teacher gave another analogy. He asked if people would ra…

> at a fraction of the cost That might also be the reason. If something is cheaper, it feels inferior. Also with diamonds it's probably a factor that the fiancé is expected to present serious intents with a deeper monetary investment. "Look honey, it's an ethical, clean diamond and only cost 1/20th of a dirty one" sad, but feels wrong. Edit: I also remember a guy at dinner party bragging about buying a 5000EUR ring,…

Buy 20 then. I wonder if there's a way to tastefully put them all on a single ring.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#348

Post by CapmCrackaWaka » Tue, May 04, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

cyberpunk wrote: post #3

Married members of HN, what did you do if you think diamonds are utterly ridiclious however due to societal constraints some kind of ring is required for your SO?

It's got to be a conversation between you and your spouse - my (now wife) said she definitely wanted a diamond. I ended up proposing with my great grandmothers ring, that has a small diamond. She loved it. Some people will want to go select a ring together at diamonds direct. Some won't even care about a ring.

As far as friends and family goes, they can get over it. I actually have a lot of fun telling people about the current scam that are diamonds, if they make any sideways remarks about my wife and my preferences. There really is no defending the diamond industry, so if they are pushy or too nosy, it's an easy argument to 'win'.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#349

Post by saiya-jin » Tue, May 04, 2021, 1:58 PM UTC

throwawayosiu1 wrote: post #334

I'm at the marriage age right now and I see tons of my friends getting married. A friend got proposed a couple of months ago and her ring is ~40k USD. In my opinion, that's crazy since they're spending ~30k CAD on their wedding. My partner also mentioned that she'd like a wedding ring of the same calibre since according to her - diamond ring is how much love / value / worth I hold for her. Furthermore, a significant…

Do an experiment - ask your partner if she wouldn't marry you if you don't give her precious stone. If she won't, I can't see how such a relationship is based on love, rather than various calculations. The idea that money express love is plain stupid from any point of view I can imagine.

One big warning sign right there.

FYI I didn't give my wife any diamond, in fact when I proposed to her on top of Mont Blanc after grueling dangerous skitour I didn't even have a ring since she never wore any before, so I couldn't get correct size.

It didn't matter a bit and still doesn't - everybody we talked about considers my proposal way cooler than usual big money being thrown around. I bought her a ring of her choice afterwards (cheap stuff), and no surprise - she lost it / got stolen when working at tomography lab few months afterwards. Not a problem, imagine losing a ring worth 40k (upon sale, resale maybe 50% of it if lucky).

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#350

Post by HDMI_Cable » Tue, May 04, 2021, 1:59 PM UTC

throwawayosiu1 wrote: post #334

I'm at the marriage age right now and I see tons of my friends getting married. A friend got proposed a couple of months ago and her ring is ~40k USD. In my opinion, that's crazy since they're spending ~30k CAD on their wedding. My partner also mentioned that she'd like a wedding ring of the same calibre since according to her - diamond ring is how much love / value / worth I hold for her. Furthermore, a significant…

Wow, you might want to talk with your partner about buying a ~40k ring. That seems like it could be a big sticking point in a marriage, especially considering it could pay for an entire university degree.