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Changes at Basecamp

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Re: Changes at Basecamp

#341

Post by angry_octet »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #297
analogdreams wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither of those messages should be posted in the workplace. And I really don't understand why your sexual preferences should be known to/by your coworkers either. Having recent returned to a corporate work environment I am amazed at how much time is spent focusing on these things instead of, you know, running the business and generating shareholder value.

Because people aren’t robots, and like to get to know the people with whom they spend ~40 hours every week?

But not if that involves gay husbands or racist police or housing policy. (And since housing is Topic #1 in SV that might prove a bit difficult.) Only the weather, who you saw dining together at the yacht club, and ... IDK. You can't even have a good old vim/emacs at Basecamp.

Re: Changes at Basecamp

#342

Post by kiawe_fire »

cozuya wrote: post #326
kiawe_fire wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think I misread you, and I think I fully understand what you mean - to some, simply saying “my husband and I” triggers the feeling that you’re shoving an agenda in their face. I get it, and I don’t disagree at all. But you immediately lept to “conservative politics” as the one opposition that might object to the very existence of somebody. Clearly, without any context, if ever a word were to be said about thi…

[flagged]

I didn’t realize I didn’t want myself to exist.

I certainly didn’t realize I wanted to take all my own rights away.

Re: Changes at Basecamp

#343

Post by sidlls »

tylermenezes wrote: post #303
chipotle_coyote wrote: post #191

There's a great blog entry I just read about this, "On Politics At Work". I think the author effectively hits on a real problem with a lot of these discussions. https://json.blog/2021/04/26/on-politics-at.html To some folks, "politics at work" means "endless battle royale political debates among coworkers in a Slack all day long; why wouldn't you be against that? But to others, "politics at work" means "are we paying…

> I'm giving Basecamp the benefit of the doubt I'm not, especially as the post then moves straight into dissolving the DEI committee and moving its responsibilities to HR.

That is a net benefit to the company and employees. The DEI committees I've seen are filled with some of the most viciously aggressive people. It's simply not possible to have a conversation with them about these issues that doesn't start with "you're right, I'll shut up and listen to you tell us how we should fix things."

Re: Changes at Basecamp

#344

Post by dragonwriter »

angry_octet wrote: post #341
jakelazaroff wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because people aren’t robots, and like to get to know the people with whom they spend ~40 hours every week?

But not if that involves gay husbands or racist police or housing policy. (And since housing is Topic #1 in SV that might prove a bit difficult.) Only the weather, who you saw dining together at the yacht club, and ... IDK. You can't even have a good old vim/emacs at Basecamp.

> Only the weather

But be careful of anything touching on long-term trends...

Re: Changes at Basecamp

#345

Post by lindy2021 »

tcbasche wrote: post #339

Interesting; working at a company with a fairly high degree of psychological safety there is almost no heavy political fighting on Slack or other communication channels (except for the odd comment here or there). There is a high degree of focus on completing actual work and a level of professional behaviour that arguments like these would be very out of place. This is probably due to the size of the org; maybe with m…

[flagged]

Re: Changes at Basecamp

#346

Post by yibg »

kiawe_fire wrote: post #242
drewbug01 wrote: post #81

Issues that directly impact me and mine at my workplace are considered “political” by those of more conservative mindsets. That’s the really ugly flip side of this, and I know it’s been said elsewhere but: conservative politics in the US make some people’s entire existence political, full stop. So you do a lot more than just cut out “distracting” conversations this way. You uninvited certain people entirely, and in d…

> conservative politics in the UD make some people’s entire existence political, full stop Funny, as a conservative minority in a straight white liberal company, my entire existence isn’t just political, it’s apparently a moral imperative that I be reminded on a daily basis that people like myself not only shouldn’t have a voice, we shouldn’t be allowed to exist in society at all. Full stop. It’s made quite clear tha…

Kinda depends on what you do and say as a conservative I guess. I agree that in liberal circles there is a bias against conservatives, but that's also because many conservative views are intolerant.

Expressing "I'm a conservative" should be fine, but saying "I think homosexuality is gross. Oh by the way I'm conservative" is not. Unfortunately, the "conservatives" are often associated with the latter.

I also think it's ok to be intolerant of intolerance, and not all views should be equally freely expressed. Taking a more extreme example (and definitely not saying OP or all conservatives are like this), but I'm ok with a klan member feeling his only means of survival at a work place is to keep his mouth shut about his beliefs.

Re: Changes at Basecamp

#348

Post by DiNovi »

lindy2021 wrote: post #255
villasv wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We already have a solution for the issues you described, HR. Surely you must be joking.

If you don't trust your employer's HR department, then why did you accept the position?

HR exists to protect the company not the individual

Re: Changes at Basecamp

#349

Post by analogdreams »

drewbug01 wrote: post #338
analogdreams wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In conjunction with knowing your gender, I believe it does, or at least provides a very strong suggestion. The point is neither should matter, and I would argue, neither should be known, in the workplace.

I mean, anonymous handles and no in-person (or zoom) chat might make that sorta possible, but you can’t get around the problem. The real issue is that this is only a problem in one direction: nobody complains when someone says “my wife,” and some people definitely complain when someone says “my husband”. It definitely gets made about sex, and gay sex specifically, by the people making the complaint. They’re the ones…

Which is why it should all be avoided in the workplace. This is not a debate about the merits of gay or straight sexual orientation.

My coworkers have no need to know if I am in a relationship, have children, etc. If they ask I will (and do) tell them I am not interested in having that conversation and I will never ask them or engage further if they bring their partner/spouse/children up.

I'm there to do a job and leave as quickly as possible upon completing the days work. Everything else, in my opinion, is a distraction hampering that goal.

Re: Changes at Basecamp

#350

Post by dylan604 »

lindy2021 wrote: post #255
villasv wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We already have a solution for the issues you described, HR. Surely you must be joking.

If you don't trust your employer's HR department, then why did you accept the position?

Because you don't truly find out how bad/toxic departments within a company are until you've been there a while.
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