Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#341

Post by tracer4201 » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 1:15 AM UTC

acuozzo wrote: post #194

tracer4201 wrote: post #73

> After Amazon told them that they had violated its external communications policy by speaking publicly about the business, their group organized 400 employees to also speak out, purposely violating the policy to make a point. I get that Amazon and big tech hate posts are a daily thing on HN these days, but this seems simple enough to me. They broke Amazons policies and organized other employees to also break policy.…

> They broke Amazons policies and organized other employees to also break policy. How's Kohlberg Stage 4 working out for you?

How’s cyber bullying for you? Just to be clear, your comment isn’t about Amazon policies or the appropriate response. Your comment is a personal attack on me. Does that make you feel superior or bigger than me? Good luck to you in real life.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#342

Post by tracer4201 » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 1:18 AM UTC

uoaei wrote: post #242

acuozzo wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They broke Amazons policies and organized other employees to also break policy. How's Kohlberg Stage 4 working out for you?

Maybe a little trite, but this is the correct framing IMO. Blindly accepting rules, just because they're noted down in some policy by a perceived authority, is the very definition of bootlicking .

That’s interesting. So when someone has an opinion that differs from your world view, you launch personal attacks directly at them? Does cyber bullying make you feel better about yourself? Because that’s what you are - a bully.

Many of your neighbors are capitalists. You must have a lot of unhealthy bent up anger if this is how you respond to people with different perspectives. I hope you find help.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#343

Post by tracer4201 » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 1:20 AM UTC

ihumanable wrote: post #205

tracer4201 wrote: post #73

> After Amazon told them that they had violated its external communications policy by speaking publicly about the business, their group organized 400 employees to also speak out, purposely violating the policy to make a point. I get that Amazon and big tech hate posts are a daily thing on HN these days, but this seems simple enough to me. They broke Amazons policies and organized other employees to also break policy.…

It's amazing all the free market zealots here are totally fine with companies completely messing with the fundamentals that make markets work. Companies tell employees not to discuss their salaries, this causes an information asymmetry where employees can't accurately ascertain the free market value of their labor. Workers try to pool their power together to get more of the value that they produce, they are evil. Cor…

I didn’t use the word evil. Why argue a strawman? Does that help you feel your opinion is superior or more important?

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#344

Post by fallingknife » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 1:21 AM UTC

heterodoxxed wrote: post #314

yhoneycomb wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes you wonder if THIS is what's behind all the pushes for diversity

The push for diversity is not that sinister, they just want the widest customer base they can get. Neoliberal diversity and identity politics lets them be moral without threatening their power base. What we've seen from Amazon's anti-union efforts this round is that they are not sophisticated enough to be pulling some kind of machiavellian plot. If unions are going to work in America, they have be able to navigate a…

Have you ever in your life seen someone look at a company's diversity stats before buying something?

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#345

Post by heavyset_go » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 1:22 AM UTC

UncleMeat wrote: post #257

ihumanable wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing all the free market zealots here are totally fine with companies completely messing with the fundamentals that make markets work. Companies tell employees not to discuss their salaries, this causes an information asymmetry where employees can't accurately ascertain the free market value of their labor. Workers try to pool their power together to get more of the value that they produce, they are evil. Cor…

The big one to me is that the "free speech absolutists" are consistently nowhere to be found when labor organizing speech is silenced.

Those same absolutists were also cheering Google, Twitter and US government on about a decade ago when the platforms, and the government, really started to censor Islamic fundamentalist content as part of their anti-terrorism initiatives.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#346

Post by heterodoxxed » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 1:24 AM UTC

fallingknife wrote: post #344

heterodoxxed wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The push for diversity is not that sinister, they just want the widest customer base they can get. Neoliberal diversity and identity politics lets them be moral without threatening their power base. What we've seen from Amazon's anti-union efforts this round is that they are not sophisticated enough to be pulling some kind of machiavellian plot. If unions are going to work in America, they have be able to navigate a…

Have you ever in your life seen someone look at a company's diversity stats before buying something?

Are you saying advertising, marketing and PR have no effect? Because if so, I'll notify those billion dollar industries they've been made redundant.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#347

Post by CryptoPunk » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 1:28 AM UTC

jcranmer wrote: post #150

CryptoPunk wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US auto industry was extremely successful before the UAW took over. It's not a coincidence that all three of the Big Three auto makers got taken over by the UAW in the 1950s and 60s, and saw decline in the 70s. For another example, Bombardier in Canada was a successful airplane manufacturer, and the demands of its unions gradually sapped its international competitiveness. For yet another example, all the passenge…

Ooh boy, those are some great examples of what I mean by people blaming unions for corporate (or government) failure. > For yet another example, all the passenger rail services in the US went bankrupt after they were forced into collective bargaining with unions. Yeah, no. The railroad industry is famously boom-and-bust cycle, with virtually every major railroad overexpanding during boom years and going bankrupt in a…

It seems like any time unions take over, the industry declines, but it's always the corporation's or government's fault.

This is just propaganda from the rent-seeking unions, to prevent people from taking their extra-contractual anti-free-market rights away.

>Passenger rail itself was killed not by union featherbedding but by competition with the automobile and airplane--and government regulation that prohibited railroads from being able to cull unprofitable route

The unions bled them dry by piling on ever increasing obligations on them. Maybe some services would have vanished due to the factors you mentioned, but not all of them.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#348

Post by regextegrity » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 1:34 AM UTC

Judgmentality wrote: post #154

nerdponx wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately it's not physically possible to be neutral on this issue. It's not analogous to never giving people change on the street because you donate to soup kitchens and mutual aid orgs (or whatever). If you don't support unionization, you are effectively undermining it. This isn't meant to be some kind of woke purity test. It's just the facts of how a market operates. Every individual that is willing to work wi…

JFC talk about a "you're with us or against us" mentality. I tend to be somewhat neutral on unions (depending on the context I think they're sometimes good and sometimes bad), but your rhetoric has pushed me further towards unions being bad.

That is a very illogical line of reasoning.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#349

Post by CryptoPunk » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 1:47 AM UTC

ajxs wrote: post #287

paxys wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's bizarre that this even needs to be said IMO.

Unfortunately, it really does. There's so many people who are unable or unwilling to turn a critical eye to the actions of these companies. This applies doubly to social and political issues. Amazon and ilk carefully weigh the options and make decisions according to their own interests.

It applies much more so to the actions of unions and workers seeking to unionize. They have their own interests, and they are not aligned with the public's.

Case in point: Vox writers, who eventually unionized, spent years publishing articles arguing for laws limiting the gig economy, like this one:

"The gig economy has grown big, fast — and that’s a problem for workers" [1]

Three years after the above article was published, its agenda succeeded, and a new anti-gig-economy law was passed in California. That law in turn forced Vox to let go of hundreds of gig economy freelancers, thus reducing competition to the full-time journalists who used their media platform to lobby for the law:

"Vox Media to cut hundreds of freelance jobs ahead of changes in California gig economy laws" [2]

[1] https://www.vox.com/2016/10/26/13349498/gig-economy-profits-...

[2] https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/16/vox-media-to-cut-hundreds-of...

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#350

Post by htnsao » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 1:53 AM UTC

uoaei wrote: post #311

htnsao wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whiners gotta whine. Toxic 'cancel culture' more like, which is a bigger problem these days. Quiting a shitty job is pretty satisfying and it provides direct feedback that things need to be improved in order to retain talent. Or not, as it could just be good riddance.

Whining about a cancel culture that basically doesn't actually exist is pretty ironic. What a typical response from such a creative, self-actualized "male". There are a host of other reasons that literally everything you just said doesn't and can't apply to the vast majority of people, but there's not enough room here to attempt to start without leaving out something important.

"cancel culture that basically doesn't actually exist"

That's funny. My definition of it certainly does but then I'm just referring to bleeding-hearts like you. Most of the HN downvoter crowd fit the bill too, so petty.

Sure go ahead and whine about manspreading on buses, safe places, or whatever is the trending topic du jour. It's tyranny of the meek/weak on their internet soapbox.

I worked in harsh, cold and violent places for more than a decade and then quit to spend another decade pulling 16 hours days on my own start-up to achieve the life of leisure that I have today so I've got no pity for whiners.

Actually, come to think of it, I fired one today / he quit and gave the job to another who doesn't mind being able to make more on a piece-work contract instead of being limited to a fixed day-rate.