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The Deno Company

deno.com

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Re: The Deno Company

#341

Post by nawgz »

WorldMaker wrote: post #324
nawgz wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure I understand, are you implying Deno does automatic tree-shaking on package imports? If not, how does "deno download exactly the code that is imported" and not just a whole package? Also, from your link: "In Node this is done by checking node_modules into source control. In Deno this is done by pointing $DENO_DIR to some project-local directory at runtime, and similarly checking that into source control:" I d…

> Not sure I understand, are you implying Deno does automatic tree-shaking on package imports? If not, how does "deno download exactly the code that is imported" and not just a whole package? npm install copies in to your node_modules an entire zip/tarball package. Deno uses ES2015+ module syntax and it's only going to grab the JS files that are imported (or imported by imports). So it "naturally" tree shakes at the…

Thanks for the package / module / import explanation.

Re: URL proxying, this all feels ad-hoc and overly decentralized. I agree with your assessment that "rolling it yourself" looks simple enough at first glance, but after having so much success with package managers and associated tooling I can feel the doubt in my mind that a new approach won't just reskin the same problems. I see they've done some reasonably smart decision-making along the way though, so let's hope they walked down this logic tree and are happy with the likely paths

Re: The Deno Company

#342

Post by zomglings »

krainboltgreene wrote: post #335
zomglings wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They figured out a way to fund work that they care deeply about. With respect, and without impugning your right to make this criticism, I find your criticism shallow. I don't know what your particular circumstances are, but I see your view expounded a lot by developers who are getting their salaries from companies that can afford to pay them because they took VC money in the first place. We are certainly not entitled…

> They figured out a way to fund work that they care deeply about. No, they figured out a way to delete that problem. VC money isn't a gift. It's a loan.

It is most definitely not a loan. It is time/runway, purchased with equity and eventual loss of control.

Edit: There is more to it, of course. It is also entry into a somewhat exclusive network of future investors + customers if you choose your VCs wisely.

Re: The Deno Company

#343

Post by cozuya »

elisee wrote: post #315
cozuya wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you running multiple cores/threads of deno? If so how are you holding/communicating state server side?

There's a central Deno server program called the switchboard, which serves static content, runs a small REST API for account management / login, and starts a WebSocket server for game servers to register themselves. Each game server (a stand-alone Deno program that might or might not run on its own machine) connects to the switchboard over websocket and authenticates itself with an API key (since people will be able…

Thanks I run something similar that can only really do 300 players before it starts to lag badly but TBH needs to be rewritten as its all single threaded and 1 process controls the lobby, every game, all chats, etc. Don't do what I did -_-

Re: The Deno Company

#344

Post by shusson »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #93
FunnyLookinHat wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The built-in Typescript support is amazing, but the selling feature for me was the ability to generate static binaries. Shipping is much easier when your built process can produce a single output!

You've been able to do that with Nexe for Node.js apps since basically forever.

Yes but because it's not natively supported there's common issues like https://github.com/nexe/nexe/issues/639.

Re: The Deno Company

#345

Post by thysultan »

gutino wrote: post #271
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #96

> Of the myriad ways to program computers, scripting languages are the most effortless and practical variety. Of these, the web browser scripting language (JavaScript) is the fastest, most popular, and the only one with an industrial standardization process. I haven't fully investigated in a few years, but isn't it still true that LuaJIT is is faster than V8 JavaScript? The last I saw it was outperforming V8 by a lot…

Probably the benchamark you saw was just a iteration of any math calc. In real programs V8 js is orders of magnitude faster than LuaJit https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/...

>In real programs V8 js is orders of magnitude faster than LuaJit

Fact Check: False

LuaJIT is fastest than all JavaScript JIT implementations in existence.

Re: The Deno Company

#346

Post by e12e »

Griffinsauce wrote: post #99
denkquer wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recall Ryan regreting nodes full-permission approach. Not every script should be able to access the fs for securities sake.

Deno's permissions are per-process though, it's a big jump for sure, but also still leaves the door wide open for abuse by dependencies of any serious project.

It does allow for some coarse grained improvements for certain services, though.

You might write an smtp daemon that only delivers email on to another service via LMTP - thus without ability to write to (or read from, depending on configuration) the file system, for example.

Yes, you can accomplish this via containers, too - but it's nice to get as much out of process isolation as possible, not to mention it is likelier easier to test and debug the closer to the surface of the runtime limitations are implemented.

Re: The Deno Company

#347

Post by elisee »

cozuya wrote: post #343
elisee wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a central Deno server program called the switchboard, which serves static content, runs a small REST API for account management / login, and starts a WebSocket server for game servers to register themselves. Each game server (a stand-alone Deno program that might or might not run on its own machine) connects to the switchboard over websocket and authenticates itself with an API key (since people will be able…

Thanks I run something similar that can only really do 300 players before it starts to lag badly but TBH needs to be rewritten as its all single threaded and 1 process controls the lobby, every game, all chats, etc. Don't do what I did -_-

Haha I feel your pain, I did the same initially, took a few rewrites over the years to get to something I'm happy with and runs well.

Re: The Deno Company

#348

Post by shusson »

xixixao wrote: post #323

> The Deno company hopes to enable the millions of web programmers out there to maximally leverage their craft in other domains. I know this might be hard to see, but Rust is actually in the same domain. It is also, among other things, enabling product/frontend/web engineers to build backend/native/browser-less applications. I'd bet Rust will be more successful here, especially given its amazing ability to change its…

> It is also, among other things, enabling product/frontend/web engineers to build backend/native/browser-less applications.

Care to explain? I can imagine web programmers being productive in deno in a few minutes vs however long it takes to learn an entire new language, not to mention a language that requires memory management.

Re: The Deno Company

#349

Post by e12e »

int_19h wrote: post #103
lucacasonato wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We use it for the hash module in our standard library for example: https://deno.land/std@0.91.0/hash . The wasm version is magnitudes faster than a pure JS implementation. Another example is sqlite, running in WASM: https://deno.land/x/sqlite@v2.4.0 . Fully sandboxed sqlite :-)

It will be the ultimate irony if, 20 years down the line, Deno is still around, but solely as a de facto standard / cross-platform WebAssembly execution engine.

Why would that be ironic?

It's essentially the route Java is taking with graal/truffle - allowing heterogeneous mix of languages to be compiled and optimized.

Why not allow typescript to use Fortran numeric libraries via wasm?

Re: The Deno Company

#350

Post by e12e »

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #239

This is probably unpopular here, but I wish people would just stop using Javascript on the server. Well, I wish they would stop using it period, but at least in the browser it makes some sense. Edit: to be clear, I have no beef with Typescript, Dart, Clojurescript, and the many other languages that compile into JS. It's JS itself I have issue with. I feel like it gives too much flexibility to young programmers to scr…

> be clear, I have no beef with Typescript

One of Deno's main selling points is that it runs typescript out of the box?

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