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Early-Retirement Update

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Re: Early-Retirement Update

#341

Post by throwaway0a5e »

eagsalazar2 wrote: post #120
dimmke wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had friends with trust funds, who just seem to dither around in life. "Making music" they never release. Picking up little "pass the time" jobs. And these are people that aren't living "leanFIRE" It seems like such a nihilistic way to live. You're just floating along the stream of life. Things worked out for you, but you have no further passion or inclination to improve the world? No problems you could set yours…

Not just FIRE people, but 99% of all retirees at any age end up doing nothing of note with their time. But, and I think you aren't saying otherwise, this is also true of everyone who still has to work, while they are working. Your job is just the thing you have to do (if you are lucky you actually enjoy it). Bottom line, most people don't actually have a purpose or strong passions in their lives. Being retired young…

> but 99% of all retirees at any age end up doing nothing of note with their time.

Define "of note"

In my experience most retired people do productive things until their bodies confine them to home or an assisted living.

Most retired people I know of keep doing the things they were doing as hobbies before. Gardening, teaching kids piano, racing cars, etc. Most retired people I know are more active on the things they love in retirement. Sure they're not doing Elon Musk things but they don't have that budget either.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#342

Post by chasd00 »

greedo wrote: post #208

I have a high school friend who retired around 40. He came from a family of money, but worked in corporate IT sales for a large, well known vendor. We had lost touch with each other until 5 years ago when he reached out to me via FB and wanted to call. We spoke for a few hours about our lives, and I realized he was a lost soul. He had a wife and children, and had been retired for over twenty years. His kids were now…

reminds me of the demotivator "those who do not have the courage to lose sight of the shore will never know the true terror of being forever lost at sea".

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#343

Post by chmod600 »

I don't know much about the early retirement crowd, but this turned me away from the idea.

Financial independence, or at least some freedom, sounds great. But money is just a tool to some end. What end?

Ultimately, having some output and being helpful to others is pretty basic to happiness. A job is a good vehicle for that, though not the only one.

It sounds like he and his wife had a shared goal and developed a great relationship. Then they never really had another goal after they accomplished that one. No kids, no charity, no research, not helping the community.

Wouldn't it be a lot better to get close to independence, then just take off a couple months at a time? Or at least build up some real goals you care about? Or make/adopt some kids/pets that can use all that attention?

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#344

Post by throwaway0a5e »

tjs8rj wrote: post #324
beambot wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon Musk's life is at the opposite extremum of "floating through life." The man works 90+ hours per week, gambled his entire fortune on two risky hardware companies, serves as a prominent public figure, and destroyed many of his close personal relationships (e.g. remarried numerous times). He's having tremendous impact; I respect him like crazy & would happily back his endeavors... But I wouldn't wish for his lifest…

I’d be very surprised if Elon consistently works more than 60 hours a week, and pretty surprised if it was more than 50. It’d be a waste of his position and talent if he did. He has the capital and influence to have others do almost all other tasks, his main focus is likely to be on longer term strategy and thinking. He’s also a dad of 5 or so kids. His health is far more valuable than working 2 typical work weeks ev…

Cars and rockets are basically his hobby projects. I wouldn't be surprised if he put in 90hr from time to time because he wants to. He has the free time to do that. The dude is rich enough to afford help. It's not like his kids are missing meals because he's at work or he has to use the extra daylight savings day light to trim his own hedges and mow his own lawn. I'm sure he doesn't do it every week but he probably gets carried away and books himself for a 90hr week just often enough to remember why he doesn't do that every week.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#345

Post by gamegoblin »

kyteland wrote: post #314
eloff wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apart from the fact that average IW has been rising dramatically, I guess your not a Forest Gump fan. I think 100 IQ people are more capable than you realize - but it comes down to their attitude.

Nitpick: Average IQ cannot increase by definition. The median IQ value is defined to be 100 IQ points and one standard deviation in either direction is defined to be 15 IQ points. It's normally distributed so median==average as well. People overall can become more intelligent and the average IQ value will still be 100.

I believe the comment you are replying to is referring to the Flynn effect [1] which shows a ~3 point rise in IQ per decade in absolute terms. That is, someone who is 100 IQ in 1950 would only be 97 IQ measured by 1960 standards.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#346

Post by BLKNSLVR »

cortesoft wrote: post #329
Trasmatta wrote: post #11

This was a really refreshing and honest take on early retirement, especially among the FI blogosphere. > I looked at other FI bloggers who quit work and retired. They all appeared to be blissful. Stoic. Confident and without reservations. Since I ran into problems myself, I started to feel like I was defective. Like something was wrong with me and that’s why it didn’t work so well. Maybe it has to do with my personal…

I really found this passage of the essay ironic.... he talks so much shit about his partner and other people needing to "keep up" with the rest of society and how he isn't like that.... but then he actually does feel the need to keep up with HIS community, which is the FI crowd. I hate when people confuse not wanting to belong to and impress a particular community with not wanting to belong to or impress ANY communit…

I didn't get that read at all. A desire to maintain happiness whilst having no job to dictate time and activities isn't "just in a different group".

I think they're somewhat non-conformist by posting about negatives and the fact that life will push you in unpredictable directions - even when you've done the maths.

But maybe that's because I tend to agree with the commentary around 'other people needing to "keep up" with the rest of society'.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#347

Post by BLKNSLVR »

ryandrake wrote: post #199
joshuaissac wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wouldn't be surprised if he was very dismissive of his ex-wifes struggle to find meaning, or desire to go back to work. What you are saying is in direct contradiction with what he says in the article: > I encouraged her to explore her own life and find activities and goals that would help her feel better. I suggested therapy and offered to go with her. I was clear that if she wanted to go back to work I was eager…

Yea it sounds like he just didn't really beta test his FI ideas with his wife before launching, and then found out later that they have an irreconcilably different view of what life should be all about. She wanted to keep up with mythical Joneses and he didn't. Things were fine while their interests were aligned (accumulating wealth), but went south when the appearance of "falling behind" started in. I don't think an…

It specifically says that the ex was on-board with the idea. And given that they were together for 20 years and early retirement is a goal that takes 10+ years to reach, at a minimum, I'd say the OP did their due diligience.

The read I got was that the reality of retirement didn't suit the ex's personality. The lead-up was fine, being frugal, aiming for a long term goal, but the reality of it had unintended effects that the ex couldn't handle as well as OP.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#348

Post by glangdale »

The whole thing seemed weirdly condescending towards people with normal working and spending habits, especially because it's not obvious to me what was so great about what the author was doing. The dude hung out for a few years, failed to become a writer, and did some travel, bored his partner to tears, and ... "sucked down an awful lot of media — movies, video games, books", then learned the shit that normal people already know (that unexpected expensive things happens in life).

"To me, these people on their exercise machines were standing still — nothing was happening in their lives". Um, ok.

One of the richest and busiest people I have ever met - like serious 0.1%-percenter rich - is always off hiking in Papua New Guinea and spending shit-tons of money getting wells dug in crappy areas and fighting dysentery and improving the lot of young girls by funding schools and so on. If that person gave me shit for my materialistic lifestyle it'd be one thing. I also know plenty of broke people who do incredibly righteous and interesting stuff, and I'd happily cop the same line from them.

This bozo? Not so much. It's like Holden Caulfield, but middle aged. He barely mentions anything outside himself aside from his partners, old and new (aside from the vague genuflection to CO2 as a justification for his lifestyle, which sits rather poorly with "A trip to Hawaii. Another to Portugal and France" if he's aiming for secular sainthood over an allegedly low-emission lifestyle).

In a shocking development, life spent as a bizarrely young version of one of those old retired people who doesn't do anything beyond travel and putter around isn't that great.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#349

Post by arwhatever »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #68

I had to quit reading any FIRE (financial independence, early retirement) blogs because they were full of people headed down this same path: Extreme frugality, bare minimum savings, assuming their lifestyle would never change and nothing would ever go wrong. Retiring at 30 sounds great, but no one's life goes exactly to plan for next the 30-40 years until traditional retirement age. People change, expectations evolve…

I found the notion of pushing my retirement needle up at at all, to be a really good revelation that got out of reading about FIRE strategies.

Even if only age 55 rather than 65, realizing I was not tied to one number, pre-specified by society, has been immensely valuable.

Re: Early-Retirement Update

#350

Post by inreverse »

univerio wrote: post #146
mcguire wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" ...she had acquired, somehow, New Life Dreams, which had to do with Conspicuous Consumption and Keeping Up and being Visibly Awesome... " I was thinking the same thing: geeze, isn't there anything between virtue signalling early retirement and conspicuous consumption?

It does read a bit absurd with the over-the-top proper nouns, but this being the author's description of their past beliefs led me to interpret this as their being self-critical about the less nuanced opinions they once held about their lifestyle, rather than seriously looking down their nose at the people who have chosen a different lifestyle.

Later in the article they divorce - I think the less-than-nuanced description of those beliefs is him looking down his nose at his ex-wife.
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