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Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

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Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#341

Post by antidocker »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #326
mherrmann wrote: post #101

I don't get why people use Docker for "small SaaS apps" where "scale is not an issue". You can run everything without Docker to remove an extra level of indirection. I've been doing that exact thing with a very similar Django stack for years. Not once have I missed Docker. On the other hand, I have taken over SaaS projects where the (unnecessary) usage of Docker made it more expensive to host, decidedly more difficul…

It's not about docker per-se but repeatable, immutable infrastructure, a great boon to productivity and portability to local or cloud environment. "Cattle vs. pets" Sure, you can do similar with ansible or puppet, but use something. SSHing into boxes to fix things wasn't good enough in the 90's, one reason I looked into building .debs back before the turn of the century. cough

"repeatable" BS!!!

Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#343

Post by athosblade »

mherrmann wrote: post #101

I don't get why people use Docker for "small SaaS apps" where "scale is not an issue". You can run everything without Docker to remove an extra level of indirection. I've been doing that exact thing with a very similar Django stack for years. Not once have I missed Docker. On the other hand, I have taken over SaaS projects where the (unnecessary) usage of Docker made it more expensive to host, decidedly more difficul…

I totally agree with you in regards that Docker is overkill if your app is a Django app that connects to database.

I can't image a world where running python manage.py runserver is less productive than spinning up two containers.

But once you need stuff like Celery workers, message brokers, and multiple databases for sharding, Docker is a life-saver.

Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#344

Post by capableweb »

andrewzah wrote: post #40
capableweb wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I cannot imagine building beyond >1000 LoC in interpreted, dynamically typed languages Many have imagined and built valuable stuff in interpreted, dynamically typed languages before you, by being more focused on overall structure and making sure it's strict and resilient. One really doesn't have to search far for successful applications that are certainly way beyond 1000 LoC and still iterate pretty quickly for the…

"If you're just launching, your focus should not be on performance or how easy it is to dockerize but to figure out who your user really is." I agree here but I should note that my main focus is spending less time debugging errors at runtime and in production, and avoiding errors in the first place. This is primarily why I use rust. "Not sure the verboseness of either golang or rust" Verbosity has nothing at all to d…

> If one actually does their market research and figures out who their users are and what they want, one should be able to iterate just as quickly in i.e. golang or another compiled language with a healthy ecosystem.

That's the key thing. You don't know until you put people in front of what you're building, to understand if you're actually solving the problem. Or even if the problem you're aiming for is the right problem. Hence you want a non-verbose and simple program that is easy to adopt to changes you want to make. Verbose languages that enforces you to be very strict, doesn't allow itself to change as much as a non-strict one. You're right that it's more error-prone, as you don't have the same guarantees. But in the beginning of launching something new to the world, you are gonna need to focus more on what needs to change, rather than how correct something is.

Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#345

Post by hurflmurfl »

ramraj07 wrote: post #225
matsemann wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think it's okay to spend a few hours setting stuff up per developer, why can't you just invest an hour in learning how to debug with docker?

Because I have, my colleagues have, in fact we probably spent more than an hour and just decided it's not worth it. I decided it's not worth it because I had a way to debug, while others decided they will just code without proper debugging tools because they only want to work through docker.

My (limited) experience debugging Typescript/Node, Typescript/Browser, PHP using IntelliJ and Docker has been pretty much like this:

1. Open a port on the container for debugging

2. Tell the debugger in the container what's the port it should use (if you're not using the default one)

3. Tell the IDE what port it can use to connect to the debugger (if you're not using the default).

4. Debug it!

For things like Typescript you might need some extra trickery because it's all transpiled, so you'll need to make sure your sourcemaps are set up correctly, but that's not overly difficult.

It did take me several hours to work everything out and write a README so that every time we get a new hire / someone sets up a new PC they can just follow the instructions. I'd say it was time well spent.

Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#346

Post by derkoe »

danjac wrote: post #168
derkoe wrote: post #122

IntercoolerJS / htmx looks like a really cool solution for server-side rendered HTML with client-side interactivity. All the hype is currently with https://hotwire.dev/ but htmx has more features, seems more solid and even supports older browsers like IE11.

The libraries cover a similar ground, but there are some fundamental differences. With Turbo, by default all your links/forms will use XHR to fetch new pages which do a full body swap (unless you want to use frames/streams or opt out entirely), whereas with htmx you have to be specific which links/forms and targets you want - there is an hx-boost attribute that does something similar but it lacks a corresponding data…

I did a server-side version of the TododMVC app with both. I think Hotwire (Turbo and Stimulus) and htmx have exactly the same goal.

I found htmx easier to understand and handle.

Here are the two implementations (backend is in Quarkus/Java):

- https://github.com/derkoe/quarkus-hotwire-todos

- https://github.com/derkoe/quarkus-htmx-todos

Re: Docker, Django, Traefik, and IntercoolerJS: My go-to stack for building a SaaS

#347

Post by sails »

jayfk wrote: post #8

I’ve built an Open Source Django starter template which uses a sinilar stack. It implements the full payment flow, basically ready to be deployed: https://getlaunchr.com/ It’s fairly new, all feedback greatly appreciated.

Hey, just came across this, it is nice and easy to use. My comparison was with Laravel spark, which seems like a similar way to get all the obvious things running, but I'd prefer to use python. Have you found much traction with this? It is very neat and seems easy to use.

The thing I like from spark for B2B products is the Team type roles & team billing

(looks like spark is getting an overhaul)

https://spark.laravel.com/

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