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China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

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Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#341

Post by gph »

paconbork wrote: post #325
gph wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>(he could literally just liquidate a portion of his wealth and have someone else elected in your place through campaign contribution) That's a HUGE over exaggeration. Yes money matters, but only so much and it very much matters where that funding comes from. That's why McConnell still has a job despite his opponent spending three times as much. People knew that money was coming from outsiders trying to unseat him. B…

The main problem was that Kentucky went R+26. Throwing money at a Dem candidate who isn't Manchin, hoping to overcome that difference was an exercise in futility. You'd have better luck trying to primary him. Sure, money can't do the impossible, but if you only need a few percentage points it's pretty likely to help

Yea but the OP was making the claim that no US government official would dare stand up to Bezos for fear of him outspending them out of office. Entrenched incumbents in non-battleground states/districts really don't have that fear at all.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#342

Post by yangvz »

orange_tee wrote: post #44
bmitc wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How's it working in the U.S. where billionaires are dissolving the U.S. government?

Yes, they thought China would turn into a plutocracy. Of course they were modeling after themselves.

> Modeling after themselves

This is such a polite way to say that they are idiots, lol

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#343

Post by pishpash »

xyzelement wrote: post #10

I was thinking about nationalization separately from this. The west has invested a lot into the Chinese economy hoping to translate the corresponding equity into growth. I wonder if the Chinese are really long term interested in honoring the equity. Meaning - take the money now, grow the businesses and the economy and then at some point say "It's stupid that we're letting foreigners have 20% (or whatever) ownership o…

Are you asking the same question about what is supposedly an even safer investment, as in are the Americans really long-term interested in honoring its foreign debt? That has quite a bit of ramification beyond shore.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#344

Post by chaostheory »

onethought wrote: post #300
mijkal wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Democracy' and 'republic' are not mutually exclusive concepts. The US has a democratic|representative|constitutional|federal republic. It's quite disturbing to see an uptick in this claim in the recent years, as if democracy in principle is not American and ought be discarded in favor of a more illiberal system of governance. (Also, the pledge is not law, so it's a curious reference to cite as some authority on the…

US is a pretty bad implementation of democracy. - Non compulsory voting - first past the post - superpacs - the electoral college All contribute to an oligarchy, not a democracy. The US system seems to be designed to “feel” like a democracy while actually preserving the power of moneyed interests and land owners. It’s crazy to me that the UK has less if an oligarchy despite still having a monarchy.

This is the best short description of what the US and other Western governments are today. My only thing that puzzles me is why traditional authoritarian governments haven't copied them yet

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#345

Post by dredmorbius »

sidlls wrote: post #43
bmitc wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How's it working in the U.S. where billionaires are dissolving the U.S. government?

Why do they need to dissolve something they already control and/or own?

Because all the billionaires aren't on the same team.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#346

Post by onethought »

chaostheory wrote: post #344
onethought wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US is a pretty bad implementation of democracy. - Non compulsory voting - first past the post - superpacs - the electoral college All contribute to an oligarchy, not a democracy. The US system seems to be designed to “feel” like a democracy while actually preserving the power of moneyed interests and land owners. It’s crazy to me that the UK has less if an oligarchy despite still having a monarchy.

This is the best short description of what the US and other Western governments are today. My only thing that puzzles me is why traditional authoritarian governments haven't copied them yet

It's mostly the US... New Zealand, Taiwan, Australia do it much better.

Of course the media is still an impressive machine of control (see Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent), but again even the media is a little bit better outside the US.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#347

Post by onethought »

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #335
onethought wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over in the land of the free. Are the police not trawling through Facebook imagery and chat messages to arrest the “insurrectionists”? Is the spying ok when it’s sponsored by Facebook?

Well, I don't disagree with you. We're becoming more like China every day. Social scoring, speech codes, nonpersons, government-inspired mob violence.

I can't help but feel this isn't related to political idealism... There is some kind of "well we can... so why not?" and implementing it, and the second/third order effects of doing it are sometimes hard to envision. Like "lets build a chat system (and store it all in a centralised location)" doesn't feel as nefarious as like a Manhattan Project, but ramifications are quite dramatic.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#348

Post by chrischen »

metabagel wrote: post #45
chrischen wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All US companies are also either state owned (USPS), state overseen (regulated), or even state subsidized as well (Boeing). You can add state monitored (Telcos) in there as well.

Not in the way that they are in China. In China, state overseen means there are government officials working within the company.

Nothing is ever the exact same way elsewhere. Everything is along a continuum but and the differences are measured in degrees, but there is no fundamental difference.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#349

Post by onecommentman »

kurthr wrote: post #330
hhjinks wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Calling them communist is pretty hilarious even if the word is in their name Why? China was clearly a communist project, and this is what they became. Why is the end result we see in reality less valid than the theory?

For the same reason we don't refer to Hitler as a socialist. There are still places with actual communes. Words have meaning so unless you're using them as a proper noun or acronym (CCP, NAZI) you follow common usage. Just because a word is useful for demagoguery or insult doesn't make it correct.

Extraordinary claims call for extraordinary evidence.

The CCP has been around for about a hundred years, founded in 1921. They haven’t changed their name in almost 100 years.

“Officially, the CCP is committed to communism and continues to participate in the International Meeting of Communist and Workers' Parties each year. According to the party constitution, the CCP adheres to Marxism–Leninism, Mao Zedong Thought, socialism with Chinese characteristics, Deng Xiaoping Theory, the Three Represents, the Scientific Outlook on Development, and Xi Jinping Thought. The official explanation for China's economic reforms is that the country is in the primary stage of socialism, a developmental stage similar to the capitalist mode of production. The command economy established under Mao Zedong was replaced by the socialist market economy under Deng Xiaoping, the current economic system, on the basis that "Practice is the Sole Criterion for the Truth".”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Communist_Party

Not saying your anecdatum isn’t correct, but it’s a higher hill to climb than that. If someone described a person to me as the description above, I’d say “Gee, that’s most likely a communist.”

The Nazi party was founded in 1919 and ended, rather spectacularly, in 1945. That’s only 25 years.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#350

Post by rorykoehler »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #218
rorykoehler wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CCP. I’m talking shipping ports, infra investments etc

I'm no expert, but I understood that those were more "diplomatic" investments. The ports in Sri Lanka, for example, are impractical and unused, their function fulfilled as soon as the deal was agreed.

They've bought over a dozen existing shipping ports in Europe https://www.npr.org/2018/10/09/642587456/chinese-firms-now-h...
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