My Experience at Apple • Hacker News Board

Re: My Experience at Apple

#341

Post by geodel » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 10:31 PM UTC

jldugger wrote: post #308

alpb wrote: post #179

I am reading through this and I bet my 200$ that this person’s manager/team was primarily white and therefore this person has faced severe racism and bullying as a result of their race: > I had joined Apple on a student OPT visa > I was constantly being excluded from work meetings and events. There were meetings that I would be the only one who was not invited > my manager [...] started laughing and making fun of my…

> I am reading through this and I bet my 200$ that this person’s manager/team was primarily white and therefore this person has faced severe racism and bullying as a result of their race I can see why you'd think that, but don't you think it's just as likely that the manager was a high caste Hindu? It seems in poor taste to speculate.

> .. likely that the manager was a high caste Hindu?

Good point. I'd say with critical race or caste theory in fashion if atrocity happened perpetrator is either white male in US or upper caste hindu male in India. Any other case would be called deflection from 'real' issues.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#342

Post by outside1234 » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 10:31 PM UTC

I didn't work at Apple, but at Nest Labs, which was essentially an Apple startup, and this resonates very heavily with me from the abuse I received directly from Tony Fadell for a full year -- mostly essentially around protecting my team from systematic overwork.

I have had almost a half decade to put it behind me and have perspective on it, and it made a better manager.

But the other lesson from this is also that if this starts happening -- drop everything and find a new job -- it is not worth it no matter what.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#343

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 10:32 PM UTC

dreamcompiler wrote: post #212

Things new engineers don't know, but should: 1. HR doesn't work for you; they work to minimize liability for the company. If HR thinks the best way to accomplish that is to destroy your life, that's exactly what they will do. 2. Many SV companies, as well as groups within large, respected SV companies, only survive through exploitation. They exploit their customers, their workforce, or both. Exploitation means obtain…

[deleted]

Re: My Experience at Apple

#344

Post by worker767424 » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 10:34 PM UTC

adultSwim wrote: post #310

emptyparadise wrote: post #50

My heart goes out to any immigrant forced to stay in a abusive environment like this just to not get kicked out of the country.

I've seen that firsthand. Employers really have them over a barrel. Even more with extremely low paid outsourced workers.

Ironically, if you're here illegally working in fields, it's probably easier to find an employer who treats you better.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#345

Post by dingaling » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 10:35 PM UTC

m0llusk wrote: post #274

arcatech wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internal culture was influenced by Steve Jobs. He was widely known for being an asshole who also happened to be an excellent salesman with a really good design sense. That's Apple.

That isn't really true. Steve Jobs was no nonsense, but was most often merely direct rather than rude. One thing which Steve Jobs did do was go to great length to assemble highly qualified teams for missions that were clearly stated and understood and which all involved agreed were worthwhile even if there might be quibbles over details. The Apple that rescued itself from near death with colorful and fun designs and…

Direct is basically a euphemism for rude, in that it indicates lack of empathy. It might not intentionally be so, but usually shows that the speaker puts other priorities ahead of the emotional state of the recipient.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#346

Post by outside1234 » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 10:35 PM UTC

reactordev wrote: post #21

exApple-anon wrote: post #9

Posting anonymously for obvious reasons. Unlike others, I actually find this story fairly believable. When I first joined Apple, straight out of college - a good program, top three in the country - I was abused similarly. I joined a team that was on a project behind schedule. Our manager was a brusque, no-nonsense sort of dude. But he clearly had anger problems. On the team were 2 senior engineers, me, and a junior e…

Sadly, you can fill in the blank with any FAANG company with this story. I’ve heard it a thousand times. Toxic management. Sorry you went through that, sorry that was your first taste of engineering out of college. Glad you stuck with it. It’s a tough spot to be. Do you roll over and do the job your being yelled at to do even though you know any concessions are BS? Or like the senior folks, do you walk? It’s a really…

Honestly, at Microsoft, I've never seen a situation like this, and I have worked in something like 15 roles now.

That might also be, for better and worse, why Microsoft folks have such long tenure at the company. Its honestly a great place to work compared to these shit shows.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#347

Post by Gibbon1 » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 10:36 PM UTC

exApple-anon wrote: post #30

exApple-anon wrote: post #9

Posting anonymously for obvious reasons. Unlike others, I actually find this story fairly believable. When I first joined Apple, straight out of college - a good program, top three in the country - I was abused similarly. I joined a team that was on a project behind schedule. Our manager was a brusque, no-nonsense sort of dude. But he clearly had anger problems. On the team were 2 senior engineers, me, and a junior e…

Some extra tidbits that didn't make it in because the edit timer ran out: - Despite the big release and herculean efforts, both of us were paid a fraction of our target bonus. This was the day I decided to move jobs. - I eventually grew some balls and told Apple to (a) pay me 2.5x during overtime (b) hire SREs for this critical service, or (c) go fuck themselves. They chose (c), which worked alright because our servi…

> I learnt is that it doesn't matter if you work hard. Nobody notices

What I learned people that spend all their time working don't have time for the social engineering needed to get ahead. Also a lot of people that focus heavily on social engineering make bank on passing dirt on their coworkers to upper management.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#348

Post by romanovcode » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 10:39 PM UTC

x0x0 wrote: post #285

throwaway29303 wrote: post #193

This is awful. I'm sorry that happened to you. However, If Apple refuse to take actions, I will interview with major media outlets describing the experience in more details and I will release a list of all individuals involved from senior management to the HR director and all the evidence as public record. You're wasting your time if you think they're going to do anything with this kind of approach. Get a lawyer firs…

The author is... well, I don't think interviews are going to go the way he or she thinks. To wit, reading part 1, the first paragraph boils down to "my manager was on vacation for my start date. I was provided with an onboarding buddy, who warned me that Apple is trigger happy firing folks." Para 2: manager made a likely inappropriate joke about last name. para 3: not really relevant? para 4: project was raw. para 5:…

I actually don't get what's the problem here. I manage a team and one time I booked a vacation and then we hired a guy.

He quit (he was the only person to ever quit that was working under me, company is treating employees good) and said in the review that this was horrible from my side. Am I not suppose to take a vacation ever?

Re: My Experience at Apple

#349

Post by romanovcode » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 10:41 PM UTC

someonehere wrote: post #232

I worked for Apple retail in San Francisco. Being an early retail employee in the Bay Area, we had very close ties to Cupertino. I worked when Steve was still alive. * Retail management in my store ruled by fear. I heard from other stores across the US this was the same as well. * Promotions were handed out to those who kissed ass the hardest. Even if they were unqualified or cheated on promotion exams, if they brown…

> Apple comes off as a happy family friendly company, when in reality behind the scenes it’s a rule by fear culture.

Just like any other company.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#350

Post by neurobashing » Fri, Jan 01, 2021, 10:41 PM UTC

I have read things like this from time to time here about bad experiences:

> I had no interaction with my manager and she was refusing to have regular 1:1 meetings with me and was not responding to my emails.

Seriously, this is the most common red flag in these stories. Not having regular 1:1 meetings (when that's supposed to be a thing) and slow/no communication is an _immediate_ GTFO, do not look back, it is not going to get better.