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Rocky Linux: A CentOS replacement by the CentOS founder

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Re: Rocky Linux: A CentOS replacement by the CentOS founder

#341

Post by dralley »

cpncrunch wrote: post #311
pinewurst wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s hard to continually fund any project defined by its users’ abhorrence of compensation.

I think Ubuntu has a decent business plan, charging people $225/yr to extend support from 5 to 10 years. I would happily pay that in order to avoid having to migrate as often. CentOS just gave everything away for free and then is wondering why they're not making any money.

Every year between 2009 and 2017, Canonical lost money. In 2018 after several rounds of layoffs they finally made a profit of ~10 million, but their revenue actually dropped from the year before.

Whether or not it is a good plan in theory, it clearly doesn't seem to be working that well for them in practice.

Re: Rocky Linux: A CentOS replacement by the CentOS founder

#342

Post by silly-silly »

bayindirh wrote: post #278
Alupis wrote: post #270

> The CentOS project recently announced a shift in strategy for CentOS. Whereas previously CentOS existed as a downstream build of its upstream vendor (it receives patches and updates after the upstream vendor does), it will be shifting to an upstream build (testing patches and updates before inclusion in the upstream vendor. Wow, I haven't been following this very closely - but isn't that Fedora they're describing?…

> Is Fedora going away too? Nope. - Fedora is cutting edge/desktop. - CentOS Stream is testing/RC area for RHEL patches. - RHEL is the stable server for enterprise. This is what I understood from a reply to another comment of me in a similar thread.

> - CentOS Stream is testing/RC area for RHEL patches.

No more than 'current' rhel is testing for centos patches.

Re: Rocky Linux: A CentOS replacement by the CentOS founder

#343

Post by chillfox »

evol262 wrote: post #334
em500 wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's a bit too obvious to spell it out, but 1. Red Hat Inc. does not want people to build and/or distribute gratis RHEL8 or clones. It would be trivial to just put the actual RHEL8 iso as an unsupported download on their ftp/www server and sell the support separately, like Oracle or Canonical do. Instead, they kept this ridiculous make work project called CentOS around, that involved non-trivial manual labor me…

> 1. Red Hat Inc. does not want people to build and/or distribute gratis RHEL8 or clones. It would be trivial to just put the actual RHEL8 iso as an unsupported download on their ftp/www server and sell the support separately, like Oracle or Canonical do. Instead, they kept this ridiculous make work project called CentOS around, that involved non-trivial manual labor meticulously rebranding RHEL into RedHat owned Cen…

I think one of the reasons people don't really value "enterprise stability" is because it is mostly a myth.

Re: Rocky Linux: A CentOS replacement by the CentOS founder

#344

Post by tinus_hn »

Keverw wrote: post #335
tux wrote: post #196

I think the name and the logo is good. Don't listen to the people who just keep talking and not helping! Good to see that CentOS cofonder picked this up and now became a founder of Rocky Linux. This shows dedication and rock solid background. Rocky Linux will be a project to follow, help and use in production environment. Thank you for all your hard work!

Reminds me about how people don't even give CockroachDB a chance because of it's name. Every time it's mentioned on HN, people can't help but to bring up it's name.

Same happens with GIMP, it’s just not smart marketing.

Re: Rocky Linux: A CentOS replacement by the CentOS founder

#345

Post by thebigspacefuck »

macspoofing wrote: post #321
optimalsolver wrote: post #305

I hate the name.

To be fair, CentOS isn't a great name, and neither is 'Red Hat'. 'Rocky Linux' isn't too bad actually.

I think they should have named it PennyOS, but that’s just my 2 cents.

Re: Rocky Linux: A CentOS replacement by the CentOS founder

#346

Post by em500 »

kondbg wrote: post #309
em500 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Red Hat publishes it's sources on https://git.centos.org . Those are then used to build CentOS Linux packages. Have you checked if this repo actually works as intended? Because I was wondering if the git repo has RHEL or CentOS sources (or both). So I tried to find out myself instead of just throwing the question out there. It went roughly as follows: - Let me check the sources of dracut (the RHEL installer) in htt…

The git repository stores only the packaging related items (the specfile, the custom patches, etc.). The actual source is stored as a binary artifact that is downloaded by a `get_sources.sh` script. The build process is documented here: https://wiki.centos.org/action/show/Sources?action=show&redi...

That did it, thanks. From a cursory glance, it looks like it fetches indeed the RHEL (rather than CentOS) sources. It looks like the mains questions for the clone builders will be how RH is going to provide RHEL code drops for their point releases (and updates) in the future. Since right now there are separate 8 and Stream branches, but presumably the 8 will be discontinued at some point?

Re: Rocky Linux: A CentOS replacement by the CentOS founder

#347

Post by dralley »

strenholme wrote: post #292
syshum wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No the most frustrating part is all the Red Hat employees attempting 1. Claim "IBM has no influence, this was all our own independent action, honest, believe use guys.... 2. Red Hat employees instance that "CentOS 8 was never officially supported until 2029 so we did not go back on anything" if people believe either of those I really need to get in real estate and start selling bridges

>CentOS 8 was never officially supported until 2029 so we did not go back on anything The thing though is that RedHat is responsible for that impression. Every previous version of CentOS before 8 has been supported until the upstream RHEL pulled the plug. CentOS’s official page said it would be supported until 2029 ( https://archive.is/7Qmtw ). A reasonable person would infer that CentOS (now controlled by RedHat, so…

It's a wiki page. An official wiki page, perhaps, but still a wiki page that anyone can edit.

Re: Rocky Linux: A CentOS replacement by the CentOS founder

#348

Post by Spivak »

macspoofing wrote: post #317
Spivak wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The old model went something like this. - Fedora does its thing informed by but somewhat independently of RHEL. - Red Hat chooses a Fedora release to be the base of RHEL, forks it, and starts working on it. - This eventually becomes RHEL X. - Red Hat then forks RHEL X to create the RHEL X.0 Beta and eventually the RHEL X.0 release. RHEL X keeps getting work done on it which eventually lead to another fork which creat…

There is a use-case for CentOS Stream, and if all Red Hat did was announced CentOS Stream and kept CentOS proper NO ONE would have any issue with that. There is also a use case for a production fork of RHEL as well. That's now gone. People who migrated to CentOS 8 because they thought they were getting a decade of support - that's now gone. So what are you arguing, that the second group somehow doesn't get it?

I can’t defend cutting support for CentOS 8. That’s super shitty and I don’t really understand the move.

The part I don’t think people really get is that if your goal was to have a fork of RHEL that was as close as possible to RHEL itself in absolute value that CentOS Stream is much better than CentOS is/was. CentOS always tracked far behind RHEL and now CentOS Stream will track closely in front of RHEL.

Re: Rocky Linux: A CentOS replacement by the CentOS founder

#349

Post by cyberpunk »

bayindirh wrote: post #234
niea_11 wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say that they depend on CentOS, are they using something CentOS-specific. Centos is supposed to be compatible with RHEL (minus the logos/trademarks) and shouldn't have additional fixes or features. ("bug for bug, feature for feature" <= centos wording :)). No?

CentOS don't have to have a specific feature to be preferred over RH. Being free in both beer and speech is important enough. People (incl. us) install 1000+ server clusters with CentOS. The absence of licensing fee allows us to buy more servers. The absence of licensing fee allows "small researchers" to have a verified platform to work with. If you don't have a verified platform, you cannot trust your results. CentO…

In 2020 why aren't you packaging your apps as containers? Yeah, it sucks that ibm killed centos, but depending on some single distro's version of libm or libc or whatever is not their fault it's yours. Doing your job properly in this case means shipping you deps with your application, and the easiest way to do that these days is with containers..

Christ; it's either the 90s or kindergarten..

Re: Rocky Linux: A CentOS replacement by the CentOS founder

#350

Post by [deleted] »

p1necone wrote: post #323
tux wrote: post #196

I think the name and the logo is good. Don't listen to the people who just keep talking and not helping! Good to see that CentOS cofonder picked this up and now became a founder of Rocky Linux. This shows dedication and rock solid background. Rocky Linux will be a project to follow, help and use in production environment. Thank you for all your hard work!

People complaining about the name to the extent that they are is such an extreme example of bikeshedding.

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